A Sad Day for Golf, No More Stableford
in [Golf in UK]
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From: The LHC on 22 Feb 2007 17:26 Mark Myers <nospam(a)see.sig> wrote in news:MPG.2047b018e8ce45cb9896ae(a)news.altopia.net: > On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:49:50 -0000, Denis Cary said... >> > The "unfairness" is limited, too, because the net results of our >> > comps are usually divided in several handicap classes, e.g. 0 to >> > 17, 17 to 30, 30 to 54. By that the better players will receive >> > their prizes unaffected by the high handicappers. >> Have you forgotten the purpose of handicapping? >> The purpose is to create To position where EVERYONE has an equal >> chance of winning > I do not believe that the situation in the UK is any different in > principle. My reasons follow. > Is not the case that in the UK the handicap limit is 28? Is it not > also the case that some golfers with a hc of 28 do not have the skill > to play to 28? Is that fair on them? true true. > Is it not also the case that some competitions stipulate a handicap > limit of 24, or in some cases even 18? Any golfer can enter but if > your hc is above 18 it is restricted to 18. Is that fair on the high > hc golfer? I've not seen that in any competition I've played in. > Does the UK hc system provide the level playing field you are talking > about for ALL golfers? No, it does not. > How is the above any different in principle to other hc systems that > may have higher limits, The big difference you seem to be missing in this instance is that it appears that in Germany you cannot play AT ALL without a handicap, whereas in the UK you can join a club with no handicap and play the course as often as you like without ever gaining a handicap, the only thing you can't do is enter competitions, however that doesn't stop you from playing often enough until you approve to the point where you can get a 28 handicap or better, something you cannot apparently do in Germany. So from that point of view the German system is understandable. LHC.
From: Paul Schmitz-Josten on 23 Feb 2007 03:03 Denis Cary schrieb am Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:49:50 -0000 in <eriian$28h$1(a)aioe.org>: (/me) >> The "unfairness" is limited, too, because the net results of our comps are >> usually divided in several handicap classes, e.g. 0 to 17, 17 to 30, 30 to >> 54. By that the better players will receive their prizes unaffected by the >> high handicappers. >Have you forgotten the purpose of handicapping? >The purpose is to create To position where EVERYONE has an equal chance of >winning I take this as your personal opinion - I don't think that _that_ is the basic purpose of handicaps. Perhaps you can give us an official quote? >It therefore follows that you must believe that ALL players with a handicap >should be allowed to compete in any competition. No I don't. If your statement would be correct, _any_ golfer would be allowed to enter the (British) Open amateur qualifiers, which obviously is not the case. >The statement- 'By that the better players will receive their prizes >unaffected by the >high handicappers' means that you do not support the principals of >handicapping and 'that better players' can win their prizes by an arbitrary >decision to exclude high handicappers from some competitions. BTW: "better players" meant those with lower handicaps. You are misinterpreting my words. My statement was not about exclusion but about division in handicap classes, providing _more_ possibilities to win a prize. > Or is it >perhaps truer that, if you examine what you are saying, you do really think >that a figure of 54 is a ridiculous misuse of the word handicap and some >other word should perhaps be used to separately describe the ability of >players with these very high figures. Not true. Not my thoughts. Ciao, Paul
From: Paul Schmitz-Josten on 23 Feb 2007 03:03 The LHC schrieb am 22 Feb 2007 22:17:57 GMT in <45de1695$0$2443$db0fefd9(a)news.zen.co.uk>: >> Did you ask anything before pouring your critics over the German >> handicap system? > >No but you could have provided the full story. I said nothing than "there was a boy who played 77 from a 54 handicap"... >Besides are you saying the >german system is beyond criticism or do you simply not allow anything to be >said against it? Of course not. OTOH, you simply poured criticism on it without knowing the whole trouth... >> And yes, it _is_ annoying to be in the same class with the rookies - >> you may find yourself in it even with a 25 handicap :-( > >So it's not a perfect system then? ;-) There is only one perfect system: The one which reverses the usual situation: "My handicap is too low and the other people's handicaps are too high - without any exception".... <g> & ciao, Paul
From: Paul Schmitz-Josten on 23 Feb 2007 03:03 The LHC schrieb am 22 Feb 2007 22:26:07 GMT in <45de187f$0$2443$db0fefd9(a)news.zen.co.uk>: >Mark Myers <nospam(a)see.sig> wrote <snip> >> Does the UK hc system provide the level playing field you are talking >> about for ALL golfers? No, it does not. >> How is the above any different in principle to other hc systems that >> may have higher limits, > >The big difference you seem to be missing in this instance is that it >appears that in Germany you cannot play AT ALL without a handicap, True. > whereas >in the UK you can join a club with no handicap and play the course as often >as you like without ever gaining a handicap, These must be the annoyingly slow players on your side of the pond... > the only thing you can't do is >enter competitions, however that doesn't stop you from playing often enough >until you approve to the point where you can get a 28 handicap or better, >something you cannot apparently do in Germany. True. >So from that point of view >the German system is understandable. Thank you for your understanding. Now you got my point: A foreign system is not ridiculous only because it's different ;-> Ciao, Paul
From: Thomas Prufer on 23 Feb 2007 03:21
On 22 Feb 2007 22:26:07 GMT, The LHC <thelhc(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >The big difference you seem to be missing in this instance is that it >appears that in Germany you cannot play AT ALL without a handicap, whereas >in the UK you can join a club with no handicap and play the course as often >as you like without ever gaining a handicap, the only thing you can't do is >enter competitions, however that doesn't stop you from playing often enough >until you approve to the point where you can get a 28 handicap or better, >something you cannot apparently do in Germany. So from that point of view >the German system is understandable. Not only may one not play without a handicap, one may not play without being a paying club member somewhere. Not officially at least, and anyone turning up for a round without an official club membership card is at the mercy of whoever is at the desk to rake in the green fees. Nothing like a clerk at a nine-hole course wedged into a racetrack oval getting all snotty and elitist about membership on a damp Tuesday morning. I felt I was barging into the Old Course in a cutoffs & a t-shirt with a pack of cigarettes rolled in the sleeve. Compare this to my experience in America, where any one who can pay and keep up with the group in front will be tolerated at most courses, and anyone who also fixes more divots and ballmarks than they make be welcomed. Oh, all right, I'll stop ranting now. Thomas Prufer |