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From: JohnT on 7 Dec 2009 08:26
A rules question to hopefully put some life into this group.

A competitor watches his fellow competitor 50 yards away from him take
relief from something in the fairway and drop his ball. Curious, he
went over and inquired as to why the player had dropped his ball.
Casual water was the answer. It had been raining for a long period
earlier, but there was no casual water visible. Aware of his
responsibility, the competitor asked the player to show him where his
ball had been and show the casual water when he took his stance. There
was none unless the player pressed down hard with his foot. The
competitor told the player that he was not entitled to relief and that
he must replace his ball. The exact original spot could not be
determined, and so the player dropped the ball at the estimated spot.
When dropped the ball made a shallow impression in the grass (not
below the level of the ground) which then filled with water. Ruling
please.

JohnT
From: Alistair Macdonald on 7 Dec 2009 12:49
It is hard to disagree with the opponent that this in fact WAS standing
water.

"JohnT" <johngturner(a)cabletv.on.ca> wrote in message
news:5697bf28-3aae-4f79-9a3a-ebf3fe205a38(a)g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>A rules question to hopefully put some life into this group.
>
> A competitor watches his fellow competitor 50 yards away from him take
> relief from something in the fairway and drop his ball. Curious, he
> went over and inquired as to why the player had dropped his ball.
> Casual water was the answer. It had been raining for a long period
> earlier, but there was no casual water visible. Aware of his
> responsibility, the competitor asked the player to show him where his
> ball had been and show the casual water when he took his stance. There
> was none unless the player pressed down hard with his foot. The
> competitor told the player that he was not entitled to relief and that
> he must replace his ball. The exact original spot could not be
> determined, and so the player dropped the ball at the estimated spot.
> When dropped the ball made a shallow impression in the grass (not
> below the level of the ground) which then filled with water. Ruling
> please.
>
> JohnT


From: Peter Strauss on 7 Dec 2009 17:33
JohnT wrote:
> A rules question to hopefully put some life into this group.
>
> A competitor watches his fellow competitor 50 yards away from him take
> relief from something in the fairway and drop his ball. Curious, he
> went over and inquired as to why the player had dropped his ball.
> Casual water was the answer. It had been raining for a long period
> earlier, but there was no casual water visible. Aware of his
> responsibility, the competitor asked the player to show him where his
> ball had been and show the casual water when he took his stance. There
> was none unless the player pressed down hard with his foot. The
> competitor told the player that he was not entitled to relief and that
> he must replace his ball. The exact original spot could not be
> determined, and so the player dropped the ball at the estimated spot.
> When dropped the ball made a shallow impression in the grass (not
> below the level of the ground) which then filled with water. Ruling
> please.
>
25/3 Pitch-mark Filled with Casual Water
Q. A player's ball plugged deeply in short rough. No casual water was
visible on the surface, but the pitch-mark in which the ball came to
rest is filled with water. Was the player's ball in casual water?
A. Yes.

By extension of this decision, I would be inclined to side with the
player in his having taken relief in the first place.

Peter
From: Mark Myers on 8 Dec 2009 08:13
Hi John

how's the snow over in Canada? I've recently been watching Ray Mears'
series about the explorers who opened up trade routes across Canada.

Re: Discussion wanted
I have some old ones I can dig out if, ... oh right you've seen them
already.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 05:26:51 -0800 (PST), JohnT said...
> A rules question to hopefully put some life into this group.
>

So far I agree with Peter.

--
Mark Myers
usenet at mcm2007 dot plus dot com
I call that a radical interpretation of the text.
From: JohnT on 8 Dec 2009 08:14
On Dec 7, 5:33 pm, Peter Strauss <pfs...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> JohnT wrote:
> > A rules question to hopefully put some life into this group.
>
> > A competitor watches his fellow competitor 50 yards away from him take
> > relief from something in the fairway and drop his ball.  Curious, he
> > went over and inquired as to why the player had dropped his ball.
> > Casual water was the answer. It had been raining for a long period
> > earlier, but there was no casual water visible. Aware of his
> > responsibility, the competitor asked the player to show him where his
> > ball had been and show the casual water when he took his stance. There
> > was none unless the player pressed down hard with his foot. The
> > competitor told the player that he was not entitled to relief and that
> > he must replace his ball. The exact original spot could not be
> > determined, and so the player dropped the ball at the estimated spot.
> > When dropped the ball made a shallow impression in the grass (not
> > below the level of the ground) which then filled with water. Ruling
> > please.
>
> 25/3 Pitch-mark Filled with Casual Water
> Q.  A player's ball plugged deeply in short rough.  No casual water was
> visible on the surface, but the pitch-mark in which the ball came to
> rest is filled with water.  Was the player's ball in casual water?
> A.  Yes.
>
> By extension of this decision, I would be inclined to side with the
> player in his having taken relief in the first place.
>
> Peter

Hi Peter,

Just to spice this up, and because you are one, let's change the
Competitor to a Rules Official. Let's also consider that the decision
you quoted refers to light rough and not the fairway. If you were
called in the first place by a player asking for relief, you could ask
him to mark his ball and lift it to see if it was indeed sitting in
casual water, even if the stance test does not show any. However, in
the case at hand you cannot duplicate the original condition of the
ball's original position after the fact.

25/4 Water Visible as Result of Undue Effort with Feet
Q. In a wet area, casual water is not visible before or after the
player takes his normal stance. However, by pressing down hard with
one foot, the player causes water to appear around the sole of his
shoe. Is the player entitled to relief under Rule 25-1b?

A. No. Water visible through undue effort with the feet is not casual
water — see Definition of “Casual Water.”
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