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From: dene on 5 Aug 2010 17:11 <bknight(a)conramp.net> wrote in message news:588m56tucn1drtaf85sk167oqh7m96a0oh(a)4ax.com... > If you want to keep things on a friendly level then you > won't even reply. > > BK Good luck with that! ;) -Greg
From: Alan Baker on 5 Aug 2010 17:12 In article <8c0ncjFl1aU1(a)mid.individual.net>, "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > news:alangbaker-E6EE24.13362605082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > In article <8c0ld5F992U1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > > news:alangbaker-70B426.13193105082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > > In article <8c0jo6FugbU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > > > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > > > > news:alangbaker-C76F44.12463705082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > > > > > > > > > The idea under consideration here is your assertion that know one > can > > > > > > know more about what you need because they cannot read your mind > and > > > > > > there are clearly lots of instances where humans are not the best > > > judge > > > > > > of what it is they need. > > > > > > > > > > But you, of course, are judge and jury as to what a computer user > > > requires. > > > > > > > > Nope. Nothing so grand. I'm a personal computer support professional > who > > > > has spent more than twenty years, using, selling and supporting > personal > > > > computers and personal computer users. As such, I've learned that what > > > > people think is going on and what is actually going on with their use > of > > > > computers differs widely. > > > > > > Really. Tell me. In your vast experience, have you ever told a PC user > > > that he should stick with a PC? > > > > Yes. > > Why....and how often?? Not very often. See: honesty. You should try it. ;-) > > > > > I'm not making this stuff up, Greg: people *literally* say that they > > > > couldn't get why it would make such a difference, but that they were > > > > completely wrong and it *does*. I've seen it over and over and over > > > > again. > > > > > > Yes. Diesel guys say this about the gassers and vice versa. There are > > > people who prefer/ridicule rag boats. Others prefer power. 8 track vs. > > > cassette. Dems vs. GOP. Chevy vs. Ford. The list goes on and on. > > > > It does. But it doesn't mean that it is always irrelevant. > > The testimonials are not irrelevent. But....they need to be ascertained > within context. Humans are ingrained with a natural tendency to believe > that their views, their race, their country, their stuff is superior to > others. Some realize this and become open to other POV's and experience. > Other's remain closed, deluding themselves with their "superior" > intelligence and experience. I agree. And the experience of a long-time Windows user has to be considered within the context that they to have an investment (in time) in the system they've chosen. But what I've noticed is that people who've switched to the Mac tend to rave about it and very, very rarely switch back, whereas people who switch to Windows *never* rave about, and switch back much more often. That's voting with their actions. > > > > > > Ever consider this factor with your "testimonials?" Most people put > > > thought > > > > > into large dollar purchases. Therefore, if they choose a Mac and > then > > > > > determine it's equivalent or slightly superior to a PC, are they > going > > > to > > > > > admit it? Quietly perhaps. That leaves the loud ones who require > > > > > affirmation. They will tout their purchase to the nth degree, just > to > > > > > stroke their own ego and diminish their nagging doubts. I've seen > it > > > happen > > > > > with cars, boats, golf clubs, etc. My toy is better than yours, > only > > > > > because I own it. > > > > > > > > There is undoubtedly some of that, but look at the preponderance of > > > > people who report after the switch that the Mac *is* that much better > > > > than using Windows. > > I dispute the "much better." To hear you wax on, you'd have us believe that > a PC is a Yugo, while you, the enlightened one, are driving an Accura. > > In the real world, it's Chevy vs. Ford, with variable needs, mileage, and > experience. If PC's were Yugos, MS would have been bankrupted years ago. > Consumers are not stupid. PCs aren't Yugos, but they aren't Lexuses either. And come on: "Consumers are not stupid"? Really? Fact is: *lots* of consumers *are* stupid. > > > > Of course they do. Are they going to chuck their $1200 Mac into the can > and > > > revert back to a PC? No....they will adapt and affirm their purchase. > A > > > few become McSnobs. > > > > You just completely ignored what I said. > > I put it in context.... No. You reverted to what you said before I added my additional information. > > > > > So he tried it for a month, and then went out and spent the money. > > > > > > But in your "world", nobody tries a Mac for a month and decide > otherwise. > > > > Not nobody. Very few. He tried it for a month, and then bought one to > > make the switch permanent. > > > > > Wait a second. BK and Mike have tried Macs.....but their ignorant > > > experience don't count, do they?? > > > > Both say they've tried them for a few minutes at a time. Not for a month. > > > > > > > > Dem Dumbasses! > > That is not what they said. In the case of Mike, it most certainly is, and Bobby hasn't said anything other than that he tried the Mac a few times at the insistence of friends. How long is that likely to have been? > > > > > And read the comments. I could literally spend the next couple of > hours > > > > copying and pasting, but here are a few right off the top. > > > > > > The point is that you could post testimonies about Hyundai and Chevy's > and > > > Renaults. It still doesn't mean, in of themselves, that a particular > > > product is more suitable than another. > > > > It might on an open website where you can hardly find a dissenting > > comment. > > > > This wasn't testimonials on a Mac forum, Greg. > > Context and paradigm, Alan. I appreciate that you are actually making a > stand on something instead of your nit picking trolling M.O., but you need > to get off your high horse. I'm not on a high horse, Greg. I'm telling you what I've found in many years of working in this area. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Alan Baker on 5 Aug 2010 17:14 In article <8c0nh8FlpkU1(a)mid.individual.net>, "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > <bknight(a)conramp.net> wrote in message > news:588m56tucn1drtaf85sk167oqh7m96a0oh(a)4ax.com... > > > If you want to keep things on a friendly level then you > > won't even reply. > > > > BK > > Good luck with that! ;) > > -Greg So why does it have to be me that doesn't reply to keep it on a friendly level, Greg. Why couldn't Bobby have simply refrained from writing that post entirely? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: dene on 5 Aug 2010 17:25 "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message news:alangbaker-95F4C6.13444405082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > In article <8c0lugFcghU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > news:alangbaker-602B48.13234205082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > In article <8c0jv4FvmuU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > > Explain my satisfaction with my 8 year old Dell desktop. I haven't seen > > a > > > > blue screen in years. Others are saying the same thing. You're caught > > up > > > > in your ego and limited paradigm. > > > > > > Your satisfaction is built on not knowing it can be better. I'm sorry, > > > but the odds are nearly 100% that this is the case. You talk about the > > > bias of people who spend more money buying a Mac forcing them to believe > > > it's better. > > > > There is no way to improve my experience. I turn on OE...it works. I turn > > on my Firefox browser...it works. Same with the business applications. All > > of them work beautifully. The only reasons I will change is to take > > advantage of a larger HD, memory, and co-processor speed. But....the > > stability of this platform cannot be improved....just duplicated. > > > > Given this, why would I want to waste hours learning another OS and the > > software associated with it. > > Oh come on, Greg... > > Even you don't believe what you just said. It was the semantic > equivalent of saying "my computer is perfect", that should you update > the OS or application, there will be not a single thing where you can > say "Hey! This works better than it did in the old version". > > Is that really what you want to go with? Yes....because it is my experience! I drive older cars, not because I can't afford the new models, but because the older car gets me down the road just fine. I have a '92 ski boat which is in excellent shape and will haul the kids all over a lake next week, as it has since 1994 when I bought it. To hear you talk, I should have 2010 model with all the bells and whistles. But in reality....both will haul a wakeboarder equally. The concept I'm describing is called....satisfaction. "Latest and greatest" usually means zero balance in the savings account. This is what I'm trying to teach my son, who has champagne taste on a beer salary. Why not buy a $500 laptop and save the difference? The only thing I deliberately buy new is underwear.... -Greg
From: dene on 5 Aug 2010 17:36
"Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message news:alangbaker-D0ED4A.14124505082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > In article <8c0ncjFl1aU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > news:alangbaker-E6EE24.13362605082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > In article <8c0ld5F992U1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > > > news:alangbaker-70B426.13193105082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > > > In article <8c0jo6FugbU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > > > > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > > > > > news:alangbaker-C76F44.12463705082010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea under consideration here is your assertion that know one > > can > > > > > > > know more about what you need because they cannot read your mind > > and > > > > > > > there are clearly lots of instances where humans are not the best > > > > judge > > > > > > > of what it is they need. > > > > > > > > > > > > But you, of course, are judge and jury as to what a computer user > > > > requires. > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Nothing so grand. I'm a personal computer support professional > > who > > > > > has spent more than twenty years, using, selling and supporting > > personal > > > > > computers and personal computer users. As such, I've learned that what > > > > > people think is going on and what is actually going on with their use > > of > > > > > computers differs widely. > > > > > > > > Really. Tell me. In your vast experience, have you ever told a PC user > > > > that he should stick with a PC? > > > > > > Yes. > > > > Why....and how often?? > > Not very often. See: honesty. You should try it. ;-) Pfft. You are being honest about your bias, that's all. When I consult with a client, I tell them that all the companies I represent do a good job. It becomes a question of what they need and can afford. That's what honest brokers do. > > > > > I'm not making this stuff up, Greg: people *literally* say that they > > > > > couldn't get why it would make such a difference, but that they were > > > > > completely wrong and it *does*. I've seen it over and over and over > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > Yes. Diesel guys say this about the gassers and vice versa. There are > > > > people who prefer/ridicule rag boats. Others prefer power. 8 track vs. > > > > cassette. Dems vs. GOP. Chevy vs. Ford. The list goes on and on. > > > > > > It does. But it doesn't mean that it is always irrelevant. > > > > The testimonials are not irrelevent. But....they need to be ascertained > > within context. Humans are ingrained with a natural tendency to believe > > that their views, their race, their country, their stuff is superior to > > others. Some realize this and become open to other POV's and experience. > > Other's remain closed, deluding themselves with their "superior" > > intelligence and experience. > > I agree. And the experience of a long-time Windows user has to be > considered within the context that they to have an investment (in time) > in the system they've chosen. Halleluah! > But what I've noticed is that people who've switched to the Mac tend to > rave about it and very, very rarely switch back, whereas people who > switch to Windows *never* rave about, and switch back much more often. > > That's voting with their actions. But there are so few converts, aren't there. To hear you talk, MS will be out of business in a year or two. > > > > > > Ever consider this factor with your "testimonials?" Most people put > > > > thought > > > > > > into large dollar purchases. Therefore, if they choose a Mac and > > then > > > > > > determine it's equivalent or slightly superior to a PC, are they > > going > > > > to > > > > > > admit it? Quietly perhaps. That leaves the loud ones who require > > > > > > affirmation. They will tout their purchase to the nth degree, just > > to > > > > > > stroke their own ego and diminish their nagging doubts. I've seen > > it > > > > happen > > > > > > with cars, boats, golf clubs, etc. My toy is better than yours, > > only > > > > > > because I own it. > > > > > > > > > > There is undoubtedly some of that, but look at the preponderance of > > > > > people who report after the switch that the Mac *is* that much better > > > > > than using Windows. > > > > I dispute the "much better." To hear you wax on, you'd have us believe that > > a PC is a Yugo, while you, the enlightened one, are driving an Accura. > > > > In the real world, it's Chevy vs. Ford, with variable needs, mileage, and > > experience. If PC's were Yugos, MS would have been bankrupted years ago. > > Consumers are not stupid. > > PCs aren't Yugos, but they aren't Lexuses either. > > And come on: "Consumers are not stupid"? Really? > > Fact is: *lots* of consumers *are* stupid. Elitism defined. > > > > Of course they do. Are they going to chuck their $1200 Mac into the can > > and > > > > revert back to a PC? No....they will adapt and affirm their purchase. > > A > > > > few become McSnobs. > > > > > > You just completely ignored what I said. > > > > I put it in context.... > > No. You reverted to what you said before I added my additional > information. > > > > > > > > So he tried it for a month, and then went out and spent the money. > > > > > > > > But in your "world", nobody tries a Mac for a month and decide > > otherwise. > > > > > > Not nobody. Very few. He tried it for a month, and then bought one to > > > make the switch permanent. > > > > > > > Wait a second. BK and Mike have tried Macs.....but their ignorant > > > > experience don't count, do they?? > > > > > > Both say they've tried them for a few minutes at a time. Not for a month. > > > > > > > > > > > Dem Dumbasses! > > > > That is not what they said. > > In the case of Mike, it most certainly is, and Bobby hasn't said > anything other than that he tried the Mac a few times at the insistence > of friends. How long is that likely to have been? Their trial and experience was sufficient to conclude that changing platforms isn't cost or time effective for them. I have zero doubts that I would have the same conclusion. Reason....I'm happy...satisfied....with my PC's. > > > > > And read the comments. I could literally spend the next couple of > > hours > > > > > copying and pasting, but here are a few right off the top. > > > > > > > > The point is that you could post testimonies about Hyundai and Chevy's > > and > > > > Renaults. It still doesn't mean, in of themselves, that a particular > > > > product is more suitable than another. > > > > > > It might on an open website where you can hardly find a dissenting > > > comment. > > > > > > This wasn't testimonials on a Mac forum, Greg. > > > > Context and paradigm, Alan. I appreciate that you are actually making a > > stand on something instead of your nit picking trolling M.O., but you need > > to get off your high horse. > > I'm not on a high horse, Greg. I'm telling you what I've found in many > years of working in this area. And this experience has caused you to delude yourself that your view is more enlightened than others. Ya know Alan. Some people just like plain old vanilla ice cream. Deal with it. -Greg |