From: Carbon on
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:04:18 -0400, Frank Ketchum wrote:
> "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4adb28cf$0$5083$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>
>> My point is that the libertarians here go on and on about the magical
>> properties of free-market capitalism as it applies to big healthcare,
>> when in fact big healthcare is completely free to game the system at
>> no risk to itself. Obviously there is no legitimate competition in
>> the US healthcare system. It's a cartel.
>
> The problem is that you apparently think we have a true free market
> system in healthcare. We don't, we have bits and pieces of a free
> market operating underneath massive regulations and protections.
> Remove the laws that interfere with free market functioning of the
> healthcare system, let me as the consumer buy any level of health
> insurance I want from any company willing to sell it to me (you know,
> like we do with auto insurance, homeowners insurance, disability
> insurance, life insurance etc), change the tax code so that the only
> realistic way for insurance to be provided is through employers and
> you will be closer to a true free market. You will have better health
> care as well.
>
> The current proposals all just heap on loads of new regulations
> further removing the healthcare system from market forces.
>
> With your comment that we don't have legitimate competition, are you
> implying that you wish government to enter into the game to compete
> with the private sector insurance providers?

I do not think there is a true free market system in healthcare. In fact
I believe it's irrational to think such a thing is even possible in this
day and age. As has happended with the banking industry, reducing
regulation in the healthcare industry would just bring more bad more
quickly.

For the past hundred years at least, the only way to prevent the big
players in any industry from limiting competition and arbitrarily
raising prices was through antitrust legislation. Of course, big
healthcare managed to buy itself an exemption from these pesky legal
considerations, with completely predictable results.
From: William Clark on
In article <pgand55tpaa9rh0o7601nt63di6vrns5jd(a)4ax.com>,
Jack Hollis <xsleeper(a)aol.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:51:02 -0500, bknight(a)conramp.net wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:27:41 -0400, Jack Hollis <xsleeper(a)aol.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 00:15:52 -0700, "gray asphalt"
> >><dontwrite(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Didn't you say that your wife works in the health care
> >>>industry? And you are willing to state that there is no
> >>>anti-trust exemption for health care, along with major
> >>>league baseball, the only two exemptions in the entire
> >>>US?
> >>
> >>The insurance industry are subject to state anti-trust laws.
> >
> >Columbia? English major I presume. :-)
> >
> >BK
>
>
> No, I majored in Ebonics, so any form of the verb "to be" is correct.
>
> Besides, Ivy League Scholars are well beyond the conventions of
> everyday grammar.

But you do know, don't you, that Jack went to "Columbia"? Or so he
claimed, and we all believe him on that. don't we?
From: gray asphalt on

"Frank Ketchum" <nospam(a)thanksanyway.com> wrote in message
news:M_GCm.14009$Ku5.3287(a)newsfe04.iad...
>
> "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4adb28cf$0$5083$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>
>> My point is that the libertarians here go on and on about the magical
>> properties of free-market capitalism as it applies to big healthcare,
>> when in fact big healthcare is completely free to game the system at no
>> risk to itself. Obviously there is no legitimate competition in the US
>> healthcare system. It's a cartel.
>
> The problem is that you apparently think we have a true free market system
> in healthcare. We don't, we have bits and pieces of a free market
> operating underneath massive regulations and protections. Remove the laws
> that interfere with free market functioning of the healthcare system, let
> me as the consumer buy any level of health insurance I want from any
> company willing to sell it to me (you know, like we do with auto
> insurance, homeowners insurance, disability insurance, life insurance
> etc), change the tax code so that the only realistic way for insurance to
> be provided is through employers and you will be closer to a true free
> market. You will have better health care as well.
>
> The current proposals all just heap on loads of new regulations further
> removing the healthcare system from market forces.
>
>
> With your comment that we don't have legitimate competition, are you
> implying that you wish government to enter into the game to compete with
> the private sector insurance providers?

When you have lobbyists and special interest
legislation there will be no free market. Libertarian
ideas are just that, ideas. Not pragmatic. Perfection
that gets in the way of the doable. Escapism, imo.
They do need to be heard,though, but not treated as
a realistic possibility, imo.


From: Frank Ketchum on

<assimilate(a)borg.org> wrote in message
news:4adba897$0$5540$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>
> On 18-Oct-2009, "Frank Ketchum" <nospam(a)thanksanyway.com> wrote:
>
>> change the
>> tax code so that the only realistic way for insurance to be provided is
>> through employers
>
> I'm sure this is not what you meant as it is what we have now.

Yeah, that should be "is not through employers"


From: The moderator on

"Howard Brazee" <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote in message
news:aromd51mbn0g89ccbk958pf45guf77mtrg(a)4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:06:31 -0400, "Frank Ketchum"
> <nospam(a)thanksanyway.com> wrote:
>
>>Why does this matter so much? Republicans have no power to stop any of
>>this
>>legislation in the house, senate, or white house. Why does the left care
>>so
>>much about what Republicans are doing when they don't need a single
>>Republican vote to implement their policies?
>
> In politics, perception is very important.

That is how we ended up with Obama.