From: William Clark on
In article
<597feff7-0154-4d9c-9f1d-bf73bcd7f65e(a)e34g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
The Hammer <GaGolfer2009(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Oct 19, 2:01�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> state.edu> wrote:
> > In article
> > <8934936e-f090-4dd9-9841-693d307ef...(a)f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > On Oct 17, 4:36�pm, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 17, 12:31�pm, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote:
> >
> > > > > Guardian life insurance company of America �issued a policy to a
> > > > > resident of the state of New York with muscular dystrophy. �Their
> > > > > annual payout to keep him alive is more than a million dollars.
> > > > > The Washington Times reported that since it would be illegal to
> > > > > cancel
> > > > > this one person's policy, �Guardian �legally cancelled the whole line
> > > > > of coverage that insured everybody like him in the state of New York,
> > > > > which wiped out an entire class of policy holders to avoid paying out
> > > > > for one person. �
> >
> > > > > The Washington Times also reported that, "in an email one Guardian
> > > > > life insurance co. executive called high-cost patients such as Mr.
> > > > > Pearl, 'Dogs' that the company could 'get rid of.' "
> >
> > > > > Guardian's net income for 2008 was $437 million.
> >
> > > > > BK
> >
> > > > This is unfortunate, but the sad reality is that there are only so
> > > > much financial resources out there. � The goal of a private insurance
> > > > company is to make a profit, �or meet their costs at the very least,
> > > > while at the same time please as many policyholders as they can. �The
> > > > needs of the few are outweighed by the needs of the many. �This is
> > > > unfortunate, I do not endose this, but that is just the way it is.
> >
> > > > If the government takes over these payments, do you think they will
> > > > readily assume the annual payment of $1 million + dollars?. �There is
> > > > not enough money there either, you can only tax people so much, tax
> > > > the insurance companies �so much, and cut Medicare and reimbursements
> > > > to physicians. � So, while the insurance company is rationing, the
> > > > government will find a way to ration also. � There is simply not
> > > > enough money to go around, and physicians and hospitals will �not do
> > > > the work for nothing, their overhead is alarming and without revenue
> > > > they cease to exist. � �We are seeing Darwinism in action here, the
> > > > weak will perish, the strong will survive. �That is very unfortunate,
> > > > but society does not have unlimited resources to do custodial care as
> > > > this for millions of patients, they may just have to die. � And while
> > > > that is very sad, it breaks my heart, that is they way it will
> > > > probably be. �Because we have a government that has set its
> > > > priorities. �There is always money it seems to conduct false wars,
> > > > bail out banks and brokerage houses, bail out failed industries, �give
> > > > favors to prized political contributors, fund stupid pork projects,
> > > > and � help foreign nations rebuild their infrastructures, but it seems
> > > > there is never enough to take care of the weak and sick. �A good
> > > > example, � New Orleans is still a mess, will remain a mess, � but
> > > > there is always money to rebuild elsewhere. � �This President promised
> > > > change, he is a bigger liar and panderer than any before when it comes
> > > > to enabling big business and handing out political favors. �It is sad,
> > > > but the people who supported Obama the most and bought into this BS
> > > > line of hope, are the ones at the front of the line to get screwed.
> > > > Bush was a fool, we now have a bigger fool in place. �He could not
> > > > care less about the sick and weak, all he cares about is political
> > > > power. �This has nothing to do with health care, �anyone that buys
> > > > into anything else is just plain stupid. �And these stupid people will
> > > > be the first in line to play the victum card when this all passes and
> > > > they �find themselves taxed to death, and �with less to show for all
> > > > these taxes.
> >
> > > He caught you hook, line and sinker! Firstly, what would cause DMD to
> > > cost a million bucks in a year? It's absurd. There is no cure for it.
> > > All you can do is alleviate the symptoms.
> >
> > > Secondly. I heard the same company doled out $4 million to treat a
> > > woman with a rare form of breast cancer when they didn't have to. They
> > > just comped it to her.
> >
> > > I've also heard of many pharmaceutical companies comping expensive
> > > cancer drugs to people who lack financial resources.
> >
> > But you don't have a cite for ay of these urban legends, do you?- Hide
> > quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You are not having a good day either Clark. Here is another link to
> showing all the good pharmaceuticals do in helping those less
> fortnunate:
>
> www.copd-international.com/copdadvocate/drugs.htm
>
> Do your homework next time.

No, I was really referring to the fairytale that insurance companies go
out of their way to offer excess coverage - unless they have been made a
spectacle of in the media first. Pharmaceuticals do this all the time -
it is part of the advertising budget to them, and they easily recoup it
in revenue.
From: The Hammer on
On Oct 19, 3:18 pm, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:05:59 -0700 (PDT), The Hammer
>
> <GaGolfer2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 19, 2:48 pm, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote:
> >> On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:39:04 -0700 (PDT), The Hammer
>
> >  I don't have a problem with you at all personally, no one is trying to
> >personally start a fight with you,  this is about what you wrote.   It
> >is condemining a company and industry , without telling 90% of the
> >whole story.
>
> I'll try again Eric. Get someone with common sense to explain it to
> you.
>
> I quoted a newspaper article, and didn't condemn an industry, but one
> company.  That is 100% of the story. I feel that this specific company
> was wrong.
>
>  The fact that you just ignore that I've said that several times and
> go on to rant about other facets that haven't been discussed is
> maddening.  
>
> BK

You don't condemn an industry?

Then please tell us why you entitled your post "Insurance companies
are there to help us. Yeah, right."

If you sought to educate us on this one specific example, would it not
have been better to have had the heading "An example of a bad
insurance decsion" or "National insurer cuts benefits unjustly" or
something like that?

Any rational person would infer from your post that its intent was to
say that insurance companies really are not there to help us and you
used a specific example to back up this generality. You blew it pal,
sorry. Take a break please, go in the backyard and chip a few golf
balls.
From: bknight on
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:19:23 -0700 (PDT), The Hammer
<GaGolfer2009(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have never seen an insurance company out and out screw a patient. I
>have seen disagreements, I have seen misunderstandings, but have never
>seen an insurance company go out and out on the offensive to screw someone.

Well, if The Washington Times is to be believed, and Guardian hasn't
denied it, now you have.
>
>Not that people don't get screwed, that would be naive to say that.
>Show me a business or industry where people don't get screwed
>sometimes, that is part of life. Sad, but life is not wine and roses,
>as much as we would like it to be. But what is naive is for anyone
>to dream that it will be better with a governmenrt run system. You
>cite the insurance industry, have you not done your homework wirth
>similar complaints with governement run plans and the VA?. I have
>heard my share of horror stories, where have you been? Have you not
>heard of the nightmares people have had filing disability claims with
>SS, why are you not talking about that?.

That's something for another thread. Why don't you start it? I'll
be happy to ignore it.

> Seems bashing the insurance industry is in vogue these days. You ride that boat, I will look at
>the bigger picture.


You're SUCH a mensch, but you can't read. I criticized ONE insurance
company. One.

Try your best to find something else to do. Your putting words in
other's mouths is repetitive and old.

BK




From: William Clark on
In article
<3bb4a09c-97d3-412f-8add-769cb37cb6a7(a)e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
The Hammer <GaGolfer2009(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Oct 19, 2:01�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> state.edu> wrote:
> > In article
> > <8934936e-f090-4dd9-9841-693d307ef...(a)f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > On Oct 17, 4:36�pm, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 17, 12:31�pm, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote:
> >
> > > > > Guardian life insurance company of America �issued a policy to a
> > > > > resident of the state of New York with muscular dystrophy. �Their
> > > > > annual payout to keep him alive is more than a million dollars.
> > > > > The Washington Times reported that since it would be illegal to
> > > > > cancel
> > > > > this one person's policy, �Guardian �legally cancelled the whole line
> > > > > of coverage that insured everybody like him in the state of New York,
> > > > > which wiped out an entire class of policy holders to avoid paying out
> > > > > for one person. �
> >
> > > > > The Washington Times also reported that, "in an email one Guardian
> > > > > life insurance co. executive called high-cost patients such as Mr.
> > > > > Pearl, 'Dogs' that the company could 'get rid of.' "
> >
> > > > > Guardian's net income for 2008 was $437 million.
> >
> > > > > BK
> >
> > > > This is unfortunate, but the sad reality is that there are only so
> > > > much financial resources out there. � The goal of a private insurance
> > > > company is to make a profit, �or meet their costs at the very least,
> > > > while at the same time please as many policyholders as they can. �The
> > > > needs of the few are outweighed by the needs of the many. �This is
> > > > unfortunate, I do not endose this, but that is just the way it is.
> >
> > > > If the government takes over these payments, do you think they will
> > > > readily assume the annual payment of $1 million + dollars?. �There is
> > > > not enough money there either, you can only tax people so much, tax
> > > > the insurance companies �so much, and cut Medicare and reimbursements
> > > > to physicians. � So, while the insurance company is rationing, the
> > > > government will find a way to ration also. � There is simply not
> > > > enough money to go around, and physicians and hospitals will �not do
> > > > the work for nothing, their overhead is alarming and without revenue
> > > > they cease to exist. � �We are seeing Darwinism in action here, the
> > > > weak will perish, the strong will survive. �That is very unfortunate,
> > > > but society does not have unlimited resources to do custodial care as
> > > > this for millions of patients, they may just have to die. � And while
> > > > that is very sad, it breaks my heart, that is they way it will
> > > > probably be. �Because we have a government that has set its
> > > > priorities. �There is always money it seems to conduct false wars,
> > > > bail out banks and brokerage houses, bail out failed industries, �give
> > > > favors to prized political contributors, fund stupid pork projects,
> > > > and � help foreign nations rebuild their infrastructures, but it seems
> > > > there is never enough to take care of the weak and sick. �A good
> > > > example, � New Orleans is still a mess, will remain a mess, � but
> > > > there is always money to rebuild elsewhere. � �This President promised
> > > > change, he is a bigger liar and panderer than any before when it comes
> > > > to enabling big business and handing out political favors. �It is sad,
> > > > but the people who supported Obama the most and bought into this BS
> > > > line of hope, are the ones at the front of the line to get screwed.
> > > > Bush was a fool, we now have a bigger fool in place. �He could not
> > > > care less about the sick and weak, all he cares about is political
> > > > power. �This has nothing to do with health care, �anyone that buys
> > > > into anything else is just plain stupid. �And these stupid people will
> > > > be the first in line to play the victum card when this all passes and
> > > > they �find themselves taxed to death, and �with less to show for all
> > > > these taxes.
> >
> > > He caught you hook, line and sinker! Firstly, what would cause DMD to
> > > cost a million bucks in a year? It's absurd. There is no cure for it.
> > > All you can do is alleviate the symptoms.
> >
> > > Secondly. I heard the same company doled out $4 million to treat a
> > > woman with a rare form of breast cancer when they didn't have to. They
> > > just comped it to her.
> >
> > > I've also heard of many pharmaceutical companies comping expensive
> > > cancer drugs to people who lack financial resources.
> >
> > But you don't have a cite for ay of these urban legends, do you?- Hide
> > quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You are the ultimate outsider looking trying to look in. You don' t
> have a clue.
>
> Pharmaceuticals have many many programs in place to help the
> indigent. Ask any case manager or social worker in any decent
> hospital, it is amazing how quickly many of the pharmaceuticals will
> give discounts or rmeds.
>
>
> Here is a link below that will show you some of the charity care that
> pharmaceuticals do . Call some of the pharmaceuticals yourself, check
> out their annual reports, speak to any doctor or nurse, you will see
> how much they do. They are not the great villian you would like us to
> believe.
>
> www.gistprobono.org/id98.html
>
> Get a clue man, before you say something so stupid again!

See previous post - the pharmaceuticals and their PR spending are
irrelevant. They get that back many times over in the price we pay for
drugs. What I would like you to do is show me a cite for the insurance
companies' largesse - absent the pressure of media criticism to force
them. Or would you rather just fire off some personal insults?
From: William Clark on
In article
<5016fe96-62f9-49b0-873e-0672e8f02041(a)l33g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote:

> On Oct 19, 1:01�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> state.edu> wrote:
> > In article
> > <8934936e-f090-4dd9-9841-693d307ef...(a)f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > On Oct 17, 4:36�pm, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 17, 12:31�pm, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote:
> >
> > > > > Guardian life insurance company of America �issued a policy to a
> > > > > resident of the state of New York with muscular dystrophy. �Their
> > > > > annual payout to keep him alive is more than a million dollars.
> > > > > The Washington Times reported that since it would be illegal to cancel
> > > > > this one person's policy, �Guardian �legally cancelled the whole line
> > > > > of coverage that insured everybody like him in the state of New York,
> > > > > which wiped out an entire class of policy holders to avoid paying out
> > > > > for one person. �
> >
> > > > > The Washington Times also reported that, "in an email one Guardian
> > > > > life insurance co. executive called high-cost patients such as Mr.
> > > > > Pearl, 'Dogs' that the company could 'get rid of.' "
> >
> > > > > Guardian's net income for 2008 was $437 million.
> >
> > > > > BK
> >
> > > > This is unfortunate, but the sad reality is that there are only so
> > > > much financial resources out there. � The goal of a private insurance
> > > > company is to make a profit, �or meet their costs at the very least,
> > > > while at the same time please as many policyholders as they can. �The
> > > > needs of the few are outweighed by the needs of the many. �This is
> > > > unfortunate, I do not endose this, but that is just the way it is.
> >
> > > > If the government takes over these payments, do you think they will
> > > > readily assume the annual payment of $1 million + dollars?. �There is
> > > > not enough money there either, you can only tax people so much, tax
> > > > the insurance companies �so much, and cut Medicare and reimbursements
> > > > to physicians. � So, while the insurance company is rationing, the
> > > > government will find a way to ration also. � There is simply not
> > > > enough money to go around, and physicians and hospitals will �not do
> > > > the work for nothing, their overhead is alarming and without revenue
> > > > they cease to exist. � �We are seeing Darwinism in action here, the
> > > > weak will perish, the strong will survive. �That is very unfortunate,
> > > > but society does not have unlimited resources to do custodial care as
> > > > this for millions of patients, they may just have to die. � And while
> > > > that is very sad, it breaks my heart, that is they way it will
> > > > probably be. �Because we have a government that has set its
> > > > priorities. �There is always money it seems to conduct false wars,
> > > > bail out banks and brokerage houses, bail out failed industries, �give
> > > > favors to prized political contributors, fund stupid pork projects,
> > > > and � help foreign nations rebuild their infrastructures, but it seems
> > > > there is never enough to take care of the weak and sick. �A good
> > > > example, � New Orleans is still a mess, will remain a mess, � but
> > > > there is always money to rebuild elsewhere. � �This President promised
> > > > change, he is a bigger liar and panderer than any before when it comes
> > > > to enabling big business and handing out political favors. �It is sad,
> > > > but the people who supported Obama the most and bought into this BS
> > > > line of hope, are the ones at the front of the line to get screwed.
> > > > Bush was a fool, we now have a bigger fool in place. �He could not
> > > > care less about the sick and weak, all he cares about is political
> > > > power. �This has nothing to do with health care, �anyone that buys
> > > > into anything else is just plain stupid. �And these stupid people will
> > > > be the first in line to play the victum card when this all passes and
> > > > they �find themselves taxed to death, and �with less to show for all
> > > > these taxes.
> >
> > > He caught you hook, line and sinker! Firstly, what would cause DMD to
> > > cost a million bucks in a year? It's absurd. There is no cure for it.
> > > All you can do is alleviate the symptoms.
> >
> > > Secondly. I heard the same company doled out $4 million to treat a
> > > woman with a rare form of breast cancer when they didn't have to. They
> > > just comped it to her.
> >
> > > I've also heard of many pharmaceutical companies comping expensive
> > > cancer drugs to people who lack financial resources.
> >
> > But you don't have a cite for any of these urban legends, do you?
>
> Oh, I'm sorry...The Washington Times reported that with respect to
> "death panels", in the government plan an "office will be reserved for
> people willing to recruit into the government-subsidized health care
> system insurance companies that are willing to take money to take
> human lives."

OK, you will have to try to put this into some kind of comprehensible
version of English that the rest of us speak. But I suppose your Moonie
paper didn't quote any reliable source either, did it?
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