From: larryrsf on 4 Dec 2007 20:00 Hogan says in "5 Lessons" that the golf downswing must include, 1. Starting down with hips, 2. the downswing is one continuous movement from top to finish, and 3. that the lead wrist is supinated before impact, the knuckles of that hand are facing down just before impact and the hands lead the clubhead. Hogan says that EVERY good player supinates his lead wrist before impact, that there is no way to play advanced golf without doing that. He and my teaching pro (a PGA certified pro who played on a pro tour) agree with Hogan, but also says that simply leading with hips and making the continuous movement is not enough to play low handicap golf. We still can't hit it well enough to score consistently. Lead wrist supination MUST be learned in order to make the first two really effective. Actually it is the other way around, lead wrist supination comes first; it may actually be the most important because doing that CREATES the hips first downswing initiation and the continuous movement. No doubt that the three factors are inextricably blended, cannot be isolated. Who is working on this? What do you think? Larry
From: Dene on 4 Dec 2007 20:50 On Dec 4, 5:00 pm, larryrsf <la...(a)delmardata.com> wrote: > Hogan says in "5 Lessons" that the golf downswing must include, 1. > Starting down with hips, 2. the downswing is one continuous movement > from top to finish, and 3. that the lead wrist is supinated before > impact, the knuckles of that hand are facing down just before impact > and the hands lead the clubhead. > > Hogan says that EVERY good player supinates his lead wrist before > impact, that there is no way to play advanced golf without doing > that. > > He and my teaching pro (a PGA certified pro who played on a pro tour) > agree with Hogan, but also says that simply leading with hips and > making the continuous movement is not enough to play low handicap > golf. We still can't hit it well enough to score consistently. > Lead wrist supination MUST be learned in order to make the first two > really effective. Actually it is the other way around, lead wrist > supination comes first; it may actually be the most important because > doing that CREATES the hips first downswing initiation and the > continuous movement. No doubt that the three factors are inextricably > blended, cannot be isolated. > > Who is working on this? What do you think? > > Larry Good post. Hopefully nobody will find any fault with this one. The concept of suppination, as described by you and Hogan, remains a mystery to me. Is there a visual that describes it? How does "knuckles faced down prior to impact" correlate to Homer's "left flat wrist at impact" essential? -Greg
From: glfnaz on 4 Dec 2007 21:58 "Dene" <gdstrue(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:b077a252-452c-4a61-80ae-a712843794a7(a)s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 4, 5:00 pm, larryrsf <la...(a)delmardata.com> wrote: >> Hogan says in "5 Lessons" that the golf downswing must include, 1. >> Starting down with hips, 2. the downswing is one continuous movement >> from top to finish, and 3. that the lead wrist is supinated before >> impact, the knuckles of that hand are facing down just before impact >> and the hands lead the clubhead. >> >> Hogan says that EVERY good player supinates his lead wrist before >> impact, that there is no way to play advanced golf without doing >> that. >> >> He and my teaching pro (a PGA certified pro who played on a pro tour) >> agree with Hogan, but also says that simply leading with hips and >> making the continuous movement is not enough to play low handicap >> golf. We still can't hit it well enough to score consistently. >> Lead wrist supination MUST be learned in order to make the first two >> really effective. Actually it is the other way around, lead wrist >> supination comes first; it may actually be the most important because >> doing that CREATES the hips first downswing initiation and the >> continuous movement. No doubt that the three factors are inextricably >> blended, cannot be isolated. >> >> Who is working on this? What do you think? >> >> Larry > > Good post. Hopefully nobody will find any fault with this one. > > The concept of suppination, as described by you and Hogan, remains a > mystery to me. Is there a visual that describes it? How does > "knuckles faced down prior to impact" correlate to Homer's "left flat > wrist at impact" essential? > > -Greg He's wrong. Lead wrist supination does not create the leading of the hips. It's very often a result of that. ( see Fred Couples) And, Hogan himself was an example of a golfer who went to the top with a cupped left wrist and created a flat left wrist and palm rotating up with a reverse roll on the downswing. Thats how he faded the ball. Supination is a very poor term that Hogan used. It is a palm up condition, not controlled by the wrist, but controlled by the forearm rotation. Kellys term of flat left wrist made more sense. Instead of a medical / pyhsiological term, he invented a new term for the wrist condition. In fact, it's possible to be supinated, palm up, with a bent lead wrist, if we use the medical term. Thats not good. But back to Larry's post. Lead wrist supination does not cause a hips - first downswing. Actually the opposite is more true. A hips first downswing allows for a supinated left wrist. It's called L A G
From: Rob Davis on 5 Dec 2007 01:29 Dene wrote: > On Dec 4, 5:00 pm, larryrsf <la...(a)delmardata.com> wrote: > >>Hogan says in "5 Lessons" that the golf downswing must include, 1. >>Starting down with hips, 2. the downswing is one continuous movement >>from top to finish, and 3. that the lead wrist is supinated before >>impact, the knuckles of that hand are facing down just before impact >>and the hands lead the clubhead. >> >>Hogan says that EVERY good player supinates his lead wrist before >>impact, that there is no way to play advanced golf without doing >>that. >> >>He and my teaching pro (a PGA certified pro who played on a pro tour) >>agree with Hogan, but also says that simply leading with hips and >>making the continuous movement is not enough to play low handicap >>golf. We still can't hit it well enough to score consistently. >>Lead wrist supination MUST be learned in order to make the first two >>really effective. Actually it is the other way around, lead wrist >>supination comes first; it may actually be the most important because >>doing that CREATES the hips first downswing initiation and the >>continuous movement. No doubt that the three factors are inextricably >>blended, cannot be isolated. >> >>Who is working on this? What do you think? >> >>Larry > > > Good post. Hopefully nobody will find any fault with this one. > > The concept of suppination, as described by you and Hogan, remains a > mystery to me. Is there a visual that describes it? How does > "knuckles faced down prior to impact" correlate to Homer's "left flat > wrist at impact" essential? > > -Greg As I understand it, it's essentially a slightly "bowed" left wrist, and the left forearm has rotated back to square (or maybe even started to close?). It's really just Hogan's way of describing the proper impact position ... it's the opposite of the "scoop" that most hackers make. The trouble with the terminology is that it's maybe one of the most misunderstood words in all of golf teaching ... if you google it you'll find several contradictory descriptions ... I even saw one that described it in terms of the *right* wrist. "Flat" is probably an easier concept for most people. But I don't see how the the proper impact position can contribute to creating the right transition move (i.e. hips first) ... I think that's baloney. Also, I believe Hogan (undeniably a brilliant golfer and responsible for a lot good swing theory) is controversial in a lot ways .... the problems that Hogan was trying to solve in his swing are likely not the problems you and I are trying to solve. But, I can't argue with the idea that achieving a good impact position is important ... as is the setup, the backswing, the swing plane, the transition, etc ... Rob Rob
From: Dene on 5 Dec 2007 01:36 On Dec 4, 6:58 pm, "glfnaz" <glf...(a)qwesttrash.com> wrote: > > He's wrong. > Lead wrist supination does not create the leading of the hips. > It's very often a result of that. > ( see Fred Couples) > And, Hogan himself was an example of a golfer who went to the top with a > cupped left wrist and created a flat left wrist and palm rotating up with a > reverse roll on the downswing. Thats how he faded the ball. > > Supination is a very poor term that Hogan used. > It is a palm up condition, not controlled by the wrist, but controlled by > the forearm rotation. > Kellys term of flat left wrist made more sense. Instead of a medical / > pyhsiological term, he invented a new term for the wrist condition. > In fact, it's possible to be supinated, palm up, with a bent lead wrist, if > we use the medical term. Thats not good. > > But back to Larry's post. > Lead wrist supination does not cause a hips - first downswing. > Actually the opposite is more true. > A hips first downswing allows for a supinated left wrist. > It's called L A G- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Ol Larry said.... Actually it is the other way around, lead wrist supination comes first; it may actually be the most important because doing that CREATES the hips first downswing initiation and the continuous movement. Brad....I agree with your assessment of this statement. Perhaps he needs to rephrase. The rest of his post isn't bad. As for suppination and so forth, I do wish there was a visual to explain both what Hogan and Homer advocated. A golf swing is difficult to ascertain in words alone. -Greg
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