From: William Clark on
In article <85if0nFlbsU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
"MNMikeW" <MNMiikkew(a)aol.com> wrote:

> "William Clark" <wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:wclark2-82D349.21045018052010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> > In article <85gajbFouoU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
> > "MNMikeW" <MNMiikkew(a)aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "William Clark" <clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
> >> news:clark-E3894B.15024818052010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> >> > In article <85g589FmueU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
> >> > "MNMikeW" <MNMiikkew(a)aol.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "William Clark" <clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in
> >> >> message
> >> >> news:clark-555E15.13271718052010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> >> >> > In article <85frsnFrioU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
> >> >> > "MNMikeW" <MNMiikkew(a)aol.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "R&B" <none_of_your_business(a)all.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:2010051617051025963-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom...
> >> >> >> > On 2010-05-13 18:26:17 -0400, MNMikeW said:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> "R&B" <none_of_your_business(a)all.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:2010051318202741171-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom...
> >> >> >> >>> On 2010-05-11 12:25:04 -0400, MNMikeW said:
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>> "R&B" <none_of_your_business(a)all.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >>>> news:2010051023553696677-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom...
> >> >> >> >>>>> On 2010-05-10 13:25:58 -0400, MNMikeW said:
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> "R&B" <none_of_your_business(a)all.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >>>>>> news:2010050723254273798-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom...
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On 2010-05-07 12:45:24 -0400, MNMikeW said:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> "R&B" <none_of_your_business(a)all.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> news:2010050711524348319-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom...
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On 2010-05-07 08:54:54 -0400, MNMikeW said:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> message
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> news:4be34111$0$4888$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com...
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 06 May 2010 12:49:06 -0500, MNMikeW wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> "R&B" <none_of_your_business(a)all.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> news:2010050612314318056-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom...
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But as to the Arizona law specifically...
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But where the Arizona law really runs into problems
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> where
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> police
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in that state won't stop me because I "look" illegal,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> could
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> stop Maria or Miguel, my neighbors, who are both
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> second-generation US
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> citizens, both born in this country to immigrant
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> citizens
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the US.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's where this law runs into serious
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> constitutional
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> questions.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's why I oppose it. It places legal citizens
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> situations
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> we've only read about in history books and seen in
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> movies
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about the
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gestapo in Germany. It's unAmerican.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is wrong Randy. The law specifically states there
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> must
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> lawful
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> contact BEFORE any paper checking can happen. They
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> simply pull
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> you over for looking a specific way.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, because the police would never routinely pull
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> visible
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> minorities
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> over like that.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Like they do now right?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Yes, like they do right now.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Randy
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Riiiiiiight.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Are you serious, Mike? Do you honestly believe that police
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> don't
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> stop people strictly because of the color of their skin?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Does it happen, sure. Does it happen a lot, no. There are
> >> >> >> >>>>>> bad
> >> >> >> >>>>>> apples
> >> >> >> >>>>>> in every group.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> I personally know a half-dozen people -- responsible
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> adults,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> all
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> of
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> whom are model citizens -- who have been pulled over by
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> racist
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> cops
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> who just wanted to hassle a black person.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Did they say anything racist? Or you just assuming.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> And yes, I was even once in the car with someone when it
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> happened.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> I've seen it first hand. We weren't speeding. We weren't
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> breaking
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> any laws. And the cop was verbally rude and abusive. It
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> was
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> clear
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> that he just wanted to intimidate my friend.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> I've ran into a few prick cops as most people have. There
> >> >> >> >>>>>> must
> >> >> >> >>>>>> have
> >> >> >> >>>>>> been a reason for
> >> >> >> >>>>>> the stop.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> The fact is, 99 percent of cops are good people. It's that
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> 1
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> percent that give the rest a bad name in the minds of some.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Yes, this is true for any group. Except for politicans,
> >> >> >> >>>>>> where
> >> >> >> >>>>>> it's
> >> >> >> >>>>>> reversed. ;-)
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On a lesser scale, even without a badge and a gun, you put
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> some
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> people in a position of presumed authority, they will let
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> their
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> presumed "power" go to their heads.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Yes there a few of those out there.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> Like when I was broadcasting a PGA TOUR
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> event once and one of the volunteers threatened to have me
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> removed
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> from the grounds because I was walking inside the ropes,
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> even
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> though
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> I had the credentials clearly on my arm entitling me to be
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> there.
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> The same guy even started physically assaulting one of our
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> female
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> reporters WHILE SHE WAS TALKING ON THE AIR!!!
> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> I did volunteer work at the 3M Championship up here a few
> >> >> >> >>>>>> years
> >> >> >> >>>>>> ago.
> >> >> >> >>>>>> We didnt have that much power to do that. ;-).
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> For you to mindlessly assert that such things don't happen
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> only
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> shows your own ignorance -- or stubborn insistence on
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> keeping
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> your
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> head stuck firmly in the sand (or elsewhere just as dark).
> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>>> I never said they never happen. But for you to mindlessly
> >> >> >> >>>>>> assert
> >> >> >> >>>>>> that
> >> >> >> >>>>>> this will be the norm only shows your ignorance.
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>> I never said it was the norm.
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>> You said, "Riiiiiiight," as if to suggest it hardly ever
> >> >> >> >>>>> happens.
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>> It happens with surprising regularity. Somewhere.
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>> To assert otherwise is a lie.
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>>> Randy
> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>>> But the way this law is being painted by the left you'd think
> >> >> >> >>>> this
> >> >> >> >>>> law
> >> >> >> >>>> does exactly that. Allows for the police to profile at will.
> >> >> >> >>>> This
> >> >> >> >>>> is
> >> >> >> >>>> not the case at all. In fact it was modified to make sure it
> >> >> >> >>>> was
> >> >> >> >>>> more
> >> >> >> >>>> than clear.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Describe for me what some who is "illegally here" looks like.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Randy
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> What?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Can you not read?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Describe for me what someone who is "illegally here" looks like.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Randy
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I can read, you cant type. They can look like anybody Randy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Who "cant" type? People living in glass houses . . .
> >> >>
> >> >> Of course YOU never make typos.
> >> >
> >> > At least not when I am accusing others of not being able to type, I
> >> > don't :-)
> >>
> >> Sure you do.
> >
> > And my Dad's bigger than your Dad.
>
> Yes, but your mother was a hamster.

I fart in your general direction.
From: Carbon on
On Wed, 19 May 2010 06:05:52 -0700, John B. wrote:
> On May 18, 10:56 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote:
>> "Carbon" <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:4bf34561$0$22146$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 18:15:31 -0700, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Are you sure. I used to smoke about 20 years ago. IIRC I smoked
>>>>> about a pack a day. The price rose and I smoked the same amount. I
>>>>> just spent more.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably your income went up over the years, so you could afford
>>>> to spend more.
>>
>>> Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The amount I smoked was driven by my
>>> addiction to nicotine, not by the cost.
>>
>> Glad to read you're not smelly anymore.  ;>
>
> I guess you're never going to hear the end of that, Carbon.

Apparently not. I regret saying it because it doesn't reflect how I
felt. There were perhaps a dozen people shuffling around or watching tv,
waiting to be seen. Most of whom looked like they had the flu and such
like. None of them looked to be having any sort of health emergency or
in any hurry to be anywhere. And yes, at least one of them had some sort
of serious body odor situation going on.

But they were not what pissed me off. What pissed me off was getting
billed $539 a week later for my one (1) minute with a doctor. Why are
the poor and the unemployed going to Emergency for the flu? Why am I
getting stuck with the bill? Why can't just go to clinics like everybody
else? It would certainly lower the cost of healthcare for the rest of us
who are footing the bill.
From: BAR on
In article <4bf4643e$0$15824$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>
> On Wed, 19 May 2010 06:05:52 -0700, John B. wrote:
> > On May 18, 10:56�pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote:
> >> "Carbon" <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> >> news:4bf34561$0$22146$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com...
> >>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 18:15:31 -0700, John B. wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Are you sure. I used to smoke about 20 years ago. IIRC I smoked
> >>>>> about a pack a day. The price rose and I smoked the same amount. I
> >>>>> just spent more.
> >>>>
> >>>> Presumably your income went up over the years, so you could afford
> >>>> to spend more.
> >>
> >>> Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The amount I smoked was driven by my
> >>> addiction to nicotine, not by the cost.
> >>
> >> Glad to read you're not smelly anymore. �;>
> >
> > I guess you're never going to hear the end of that, Carbon.
>
> Apparently not. I regret saying it because it doesn't reflect how I
> felt. There were perhaps a dozen people shuffling around or watching tv,
> waiting to be seen. Most of whom looked like they had the flu and such
> like. None of them looked to be having any sort of health emergency or
> in any hurry to be anywhere. And yes, at least one of them had some sort
> of serious body odor situation going on.
>
> But they were not what pissed me off. What pissed me off was getting
> billed $539 a week later for my one (1) minute with a doctor. Why are
> the poor and the unemployed going to Emergency for the flu? Why am I
> getting stuck with the bill? Why can't just go to clinics like everybody
> else? It would certainly lower the cost of healthcare for the rest of us
> who are footing the bill.

Because the ER's can't turn anyone away, by law. Clinics can require
payment prior to you being seen due to it not being an emergency.


From: Carbon on
On Wed, 19 May 2010 18:49:35 -0400, BAR wrote:
> In article <4bf4643e$0$15824$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>> On Wed, 19 May 2010 06:05:52 -0700, John B. wrote:
>>> On May 18, 10:56 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote:
>>>> "Carbon" <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4bf34561$0$22146$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 18:15:31 -0700, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you sure. I used to smoke about 20 years ago. IIRC I smoked
>>>>>>> about a pack a day. The price rose and I smoked the same amount.
>>>>>>> I just spent more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Presumably your income went up over the years, so you could
>>>>>> afford to spend more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The amount I smoked was driven by
>>>>> my addiction to nicotine, not by the cost.
>>>>
>>>> Glad to read you're not smelly anymore.  ;>
>>>
>>> I guess you're never going to hear the end of that, Carbon.
>>
>> Apparently not. I regret saying it because it doesn't reflect how I
>> felt. There were perhaps a dozen people shuffling around or watching
>> tv, waiting to be seen. Most of whom looked like they had the flu and
>> such like. None of them looked to be having any sort of health
>> emergency or in any hurry to be anywhere. And yes, at least one of
>> them had some sort of serious body odor situation going on.
>>
>> But they were not what pissed me off. What pissed me off was getting
>> billed $539 a week later for my one (1) minute with a doctor. Why are
>> the poor and the unemployed going to Emergency for the flu? Why am I
>> getting stuck with the bill? Why can't just go to clinics like
>> everybody else? It would certainly lower the cost of healthcare for
>> the rest of us who are footing the bill.
>
> Because the ER's can't turn anyone away, by law. Clinics can require
> payment prior to you being seen due to it not being an emergency.

Congratulations for identifying the basic problem. You must be tired.
From: BAR on
In article <4bf4761d$0$5034$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>
> On Wed, 19 May 2010 18:49:35 -0400, BAR wrote:
> > In article <4bf4643e$0$15824$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> > nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
> >> On Wed, 19 May 2010 06:05:52 -0700, John B. wrote:
> >>> On May 18, 10:56�pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote:
> >>>> "Carbon" <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:4bf34561$0$22146$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com...
> >>>>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 18:15:31 -0700, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Are you sure. I used to smoke about 20 years ago. IIRC I smoked
> >>>>>>> about a pack a day. The price rose and I smoked the same amount.
> >>>>>>> I just spent more.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Presumably your income went up over the years, so you could
> >>>>>> afford to spend more.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The amount I smoked was driven by
> >>>>> my addiction to nicotine, not by the cost.
> >>>>
> >>>> Glad to read you're not smelly anymore. �;>
> >>>
> >>> I guess you're never going to hear the end of that, Carbon.
> >>
> >> Apparently not. I regret saying it because it doesn't reflect how I
> >> felt. There were perhaps a dozen people shuffling around or watching
> >> tv, waiting to be seen. Most of whom looked like they had the flu and
> >> such like. None of them looked to be having any sort of health
> >> emergency or in any hurry to be anywhere. And yes, at least one of
> >> them had some sort of serious body odor situation going on.
> >>
> >> But they were not what pissed me off. What pissed me off was getting
> >> billed $539 a week later for my one (1) minute with a doctor. Why are
> >> the poor and the unemployed going to Emergency for the flu? Why am I
> >> getting stuck with the bill? Why can't just go to clinics like
> >> everybody else? It would certainly lower the cost of healthcare for
> >> the rest of us who are footing the bill.
> >
> > Because the ER's can't turn anyone away, by law. Clinics can require
> > payment prior to you being seen due to it not being an emergency.
>
> Congratulations for identifying the basic problem. You must be tired.

I just don't want you to have to endure the smelly people any more
during your basic research.