Liberal solution to illegal immigration
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From: John B. on 6 May 2010 09:18 > Nice try but there has been too much time that has passed. You will > forever be known as they guy who wants a seperate waiting room at the ER > so that you don't have be offended by the smells of the masses. -- Only by you. > > > Anyway, I think the only thing that will stop illegal immigration is for > > the economy to get so bad here that it's not worth the trip to get here. > > Otherwise, it's simple market forces. Labor goes where the pay is > > greatest. > > Is that what Obama is doing. I would never have guessed that the > purposeful destruction of the US economy was an effort to stop illegal > immigration. Does Obama know he is working towards getting rid of a > staunch Democrat voting block. Earth to Bert: the economy is improving. GDP is growing, consumer spending is up, manufacturing output is up, inflation is low...
From: MNMikeW on 6 May 2010 10:50 "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:4be201e7$0$5023$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > On Wed, 05 May 2010 17:00:47 -0500, MNMikeW wrote: > >> I think it's reprehensible for the Prez of Mexico to call Arizona's >> law reprehensible. :-) > > Why? Umm, look up what Mexico does to illegals.
From: MNMikeW on 6 May 2010 10:51 "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:d32c1ec4-35ef-400f-8e99-a55adab8f730(a)24g2000yqy.googlegroups.com... On May 5, 8:21 pm, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote: > On Wed, 5 May 2010 10:22:09 -0700 (PDT), "John B." > > <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >Closing the border and finding a fair and reasonable way to assimilate > >those who are here, expect those who have committed crimes in the U.S. > >Rounding up 7m people and herding them across the border is not a > >plausible solution. > > If you make it impossible for them to work and get any type of > benefits, they'll go home on their own. What you don't understand is that it's impossible to work where they came from. That's why they're here. ============================== And whos fault is that?
From: R&B on 6 May 2010 12:18 On 2010-05-05 18:14:00 -0400, BAR said: > In article <2010050508064995026-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom>, > none_of_your_business(a)all.com says... >> >> On 2010-05-05 07:52:21 -0400, BAR said: >> >>> In article <381be576-838e-4120-b7e3-3cd6524f05e7 >>> @e35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnb505(a)gmail.com says... >>>> >>>> On May 4, 5:44�pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: >>>>> "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>> news:cb413622-2da1-415b-8b59-4e2f16cc6ba6(a)e1g2000yqe.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On May 4, 12:28 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "Howard Brazee" <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>>> news:5s10u5999v9sgj93s7n0u6ug65gmabv604(a)4ax.com... >>>>> >>>>>>> Neither true Liberals nor true Conservatives all agree. Only the >>>>>>> non-thinkers accept someone else's opinions completely. >>>>> >>>>>>> One proposal I've seen from the left which has a better chance of >>>>>>> working than the rightest proposals is to provide better and cheaper >>>>>>> ways for employers to verify a person's right to work. This could >>>>>>> be with a bio-metric ID card. >>>>> >>>>>> I like this idea. Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is with the Az. law. >>>>>> If you have a driver's license, you're legal. If not, prove otherwise. >>>>> >>>>>> -Greg >>>>> >>>>> Having a drivers license doesn't make you legal. Not having one >>>>> doesn't make you illegal. The problem with the AZ law is that police >>>>> departments and officers who like it are going to enforce it zealously >>>>> and those that don't are going to ignore it. >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> That's better than the liberal solution, i.e. better than nothing. >>>>> >>>>> -Greg >>>> >>>> The liberal solution is not "nothing." It's to have comprehensive, >>>> nationwide immigration reform. >>> >>> Exactly what is "comprehensive, nationwide immigration reform?" >> >> >> >> You don't read much. >> >> "Comprehensive immigration reform" has been explained thousands of >> times already. >> >> In fact, it was proposed by George W. Bush. > > I disagreed with much of what Bush did and proposed domestically. > > My version of comprehensive immigration reform is that if you are an > admitted illegal alien you get shipped back to your country of origin > ASAP after we tattoo a "scarlet letter" on your forehead. And, if we > have to go through the process and we determine you are an illegal alien > you still get sent back to your country of origin with a "scarlet > letter" tattooed on your forehead. If you want to become a US citizen > then there are legal ways to do so, get in line just like everyone else > and do it legally. > > If people, like those that live near you Randy that scare you, break > into your home and steal from you should the be prosecuted or should the > be greeted with open arms and asked if there is anything else they want > to take? > > Illegal is illegal and it should be dealt with as a criminal matter. > > The social injustices of illegal alien's home countries is not going to > be solved by having those countries citizens leave and become illegal > aliens in other countries. The minute you come up with a practical solution for rounding up 14 to 20 million illegal aliens and deporting them, then maybe your solution might make some practical sense. Sorry, Bert, but that ship has sailed. There's no sending all of 'em back. You're just never going to identify them all or find a way to "ship" them. Ain't gonna happen, even if Lou Dobbs (or you) were elected President. So, now, we return to the real world. The rest of your recommendation is not all that far off from what has been proposed. Although I find it quite odd that you omitted one important part of the puzzle: securing the border. That has to happen first. Second, you have to eliminate their reason for crossing the border -- by preventing undocumented workers from being hired. There are several ways to do this, starting with penalizing employers to hire illegals. And I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of an ID card (I have one, it's called a Social Security card). Third, you're going to have to allow a pathway to citizenship. They have to go to the back of the line, like anybody else. They have to be taxed (most already are), and they have to pay a fine. Then get in line. But a pathway to citizenship is the best way. As for tatooing something on their forehead, I will assume you're speaking metaphorically. But knowing what I do of your beliefs, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you meant that part literally. Always the humanitarian. NOT. Bottom line: When I see you, or any of your kids, standing on the side of the freeway selling oranges, I'll start to believe that these undocumented workers are actually taking jobs from Americans that Americans WANT. But I don't remember seeing you outside working on my lawn. Although it might be a good career move for you. Randy
From: R&B on 6 May 2010 12:31
On 2010-05-05 18:14:00 -0400, BAR said: > In article <2010050508064995026-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom>, > none_of_your_business(a)all.com says... >> >> On 2010-05-05 07:52:21 -0400, BAR said: >> >>> In article <381be576-838e-4120-b7e3-3cd6524f05e7 >>> @e35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnb505(a)gmail.com says... >>>> >>>> On May 4, 5:44�pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: >>>>> "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>> news:cb413622-2da1-415b-8b59-4e2f16cc6ba6(a)e1g2000yqe.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On May 4, 12:28 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "Howard Brazee" <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>>> news:5s10u5999v9sgj93s7n0u6ug65gmabv604(a)4ax.com... >>>>> >>>>>>> Neither true Liberals nor true Conservatives all agree. Only the >>>>>>> non-thinkers accept someone else's opinions completely. >>>>> >>>>>>> One proposal I've seen from the left which has a better chance of >>>>>>> working than the rightest proposals is to provide better and cheaper >>>>>>> ways for employers to verify a person's right to work. This could >>>>>>> be with a bio-metric ID card. >>>>> >>>>>> I like this idea. Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is with the Az. law. >>>>>> If you have a driver's license, you're legal. If not, prove otherwise. >>>>> >>>>>> -Greg >>>>> >>>>> Having a drivers license doesn't make you legal. Not having one >>>>> doesn't make you illegal. The problem with the AZ law is that police >>>>> departments and officers who like it are going to enforce it zealously >>>>> and those that don't are going to ignore it. >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> That's better than the liberal solution, i.e. better than nothing. >>>>> >>>>> -Greg >>>> >>>> The liberal solution is not "nothing." It's to have comprehensive, >>>> nationwide immigration reform. >>> >>> Exactly what is "comprehensive, nationwide immigration reform?" >> >> >> >> You don't read much. >> >> "Comprehensive immigration reform" has been explained thousands of >> times already. >> >> In fact, it was proposed by George W. Bush. > > I disagreed with much of what Bush did and proposed domestically. > > My version of comprehensive immigration reform is that if you are an > admitted illegal alien you get shipped back to your country of origin > ASAP after we tattoo a "scarlet letter" on your forehead. And, if we > have to go through the process and we determine you are an illegal alien > you still get sent back to your country of origin with a "scarlet > letter" tattooed on your forehead. If you want to become a US citizen > then there are legal ways to do so, get in line just like everyone else > and do it legally. > > If people, like those that live near you Randy that scare you, break > into your home and steal from you should the be prosecuted or should the > be greeted with open arms and asked if there is anything else they want > to take? > > Illegal is illegal and it should be dealt with as a criminal matter. > > The social injustices of illegal alien's home countries is not going to > be solved by having those countries citizens leave and become illegal > aliens in other countries. By the way, for the record, I'm supportive of the intent behind the law passed in Arizona. I just don't think the law they've passed is the right solution. I do believe the Arizona law will be struck down as unconstitutional, although even that is not a slam dunk given some of the legal hoops involved. But I totally get it why Arizonans are insistent on doing SOMETHING about the illegal immigration problem in their state. Washington has passed the buck on this difficult problem for too long -- both Democrats and Republicans have taken a pass on it -- largely because it's a politically explosive problem to work on. Politicians are damned if they do, damned if they don't on this. We have only ourselves to blame for such a toxic political climate, and for electing representatives who are more concerned with protecting their own jobs than they are with protecting us. But as to the Arizona law specifically... Police ask for my papers (drivers license, insurance card) every time I get stopped. So I don't see this as much different. They don't, however, ask to see my proof of citizenship, and therein lies the problem with the Arizona law. A universal national ID card would solve this, where all your information -- citizenship, driver's license info, social security number, etc. -- is digitally encoded. Although I also understand civil libertarians' resistence to such an idea. But where the Arizona law really runs into problems is where police in that state won't stop me because I "look" illegal, but they could stop Maria or Miguel, my neighbors, who are both second-generation US citizens, both born in this country to immigrant citizens of the US. That's where this law runs into serious constitutional questions. And that's why I oppose it. It places legal citizens in situations we've only read about in history books and seen in movies about the Gestapo in Germany. It's unAmerican. Randy |