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From: Dinosaur_Sr on 27 Jan 2010 08:40 On Jan 26, 5:36 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- state.edu> wrote: > In article > <c43adac3-e3c0-443d-89a7-980523df5...(a)n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > On Jan 26, 11:19 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > state.edu> wrote: > > > In article > > > <d21b676a-0394-4f38-b129-a765587ef...(a)a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Jan 25, 5:27 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > In article > > > > > <a128dbf9-403c-4d78-86bd-b7d48cccc...(a)g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Jan 25, 3:02 pm, assimil...(a)borg.org wrote: > > > > > > > On 24-Jan-2010, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Carbon thinks that if someone doesn't have health insurance > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > don't have health care. In reality people in the US without > > > > > > > > > health > > > > > > > > > insurance have access to much better health care than anyone in > > > > > > > > > Canada. > > > > > > > > > So someone with no health insurance can just pop in to see a > > > > > > > > family > > > > > > > > doctor when they feel something coming on? BS. > > > > > > > > sure, pay cash! > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > bill-o > > > > > > > Which is true, however in Canada you can't just pop in and get > > > > > > service > > > > > > at a given health care provider, even if you do pay cash! > > > > > > That's right - many of their family doctors will still come to you. > > > > > What > > > > > a terrible notion! > > > > > Oh boy! IF the chosen one for you decides to go to you, they can! They > > > > can do the same in the US, BTW, if they want! > > > > Which they don't. > > > > > Another nice thing about the Canadian system is that if Family doc > > > > decides you need to see a specialist, you have to get the referral > > > > from family doc. You don't get to choose to see a specialist if you > > > > want, only if family doc says it's OK, and then only a specialist of > > > > family docs choosing! > > > > Same with many insurance plans, where the family doctor is the > > > gatekeeper between the patient and specialists. Also most plans limit > > > the specialists you can see to those within their network. > > > Absolutely untrue. I can see any specialist who will take me. The > > decision rests solely with me and the specialist. All the insurance > > company can do is cover it or not, which is another issue. In the case > > of my wife and I, we have chosen the best specialist available when > > required and had no problem with insurance. > > That is your plan. There are many plans where there is a gatekeeper in > place. > > > > > In Canada, you get no choice. > > Really? In all national health systems in Europe you can always request > a second opinion. You can request whatever you want pretty much anywhere.
From: William Clark on 27 Jan 2010 09:32 In article <75ea1ec4-08b1-4cee-9360-5640507e3a81(a)f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Jan 26, 5:39�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > state.edu> wrote: > > In article > > <b09f1af4-d170-473a-9432-96fea0703...(a)b9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > On Jan 26, 11:22�am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > In article > > > > <a7082048-ed84-446d-b1be-00ec25e0b...(a)33g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > On Jan 25, 5:30 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <6bc68dda-a56e-4442-be1a-d716ae5c7...(a)n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jan 25, 8:13 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > <66c6dafd-b068-4892-80b1-2d161c41c...(a)m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.c > > > > > > > > om>, > > > > > > > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jan 24, 12:23 pm, William Clark > > > > > > > > > <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In article <MPG.25c536ae94ae9c53989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > > > > <wclark2-38BD28.15204023012...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > > > > > > > > > state.edu>, wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > > > > > <MPG.25c4f87bb230d53989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > > > > > > <cq9ml5127hejfuftu8c85v5t4p4jr0d...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > how...(a)brazee.net says... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:56:19 -0500, BAR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sc...(a)you.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> That's how insurance works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> That's how hospitals work when they bill you to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> pay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> treatment of those without money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What do you propose to change this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am not compelled, at the point of a gun, to buy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >health > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >insurance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True. But if you choose not to buy health > > > > > > > > > > > > > > insurance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > serious accident, they won't verify this before > > > > > > > > > > > > > > calling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life, getting you to a hospital, and saving your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > won't check to see if you have the means to pay). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > save > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your life, and we will pay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should be billed for the services I received. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone > > > > > > > > > > > > > receiving > > > > > > > > > > > > > services in from any business should pay for those > > > > > > > > > > > > > services > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not pay for the services they receive they should > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > arrested > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > theft or sued. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So health is just a business, is it? Why isn't > > > > > > > > > > > > education > > > > > > > > > > > > "just > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > business", then? You are not being billed for the > > > > > > > > > > > > services > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > receive > > > > > > > > > > > > there, you are being subsidized by the entire > > > > > > > > > > > > community, > > > > > > > > > > > > including > > > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > that will never take advantage of the education system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does OSU make a profit off of their students? Does OSU > > > > > > > > > > > charge > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > > the actual expenses? If yes, then they are a business. In > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > business > > > > > > > > > > > of selling education. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, and no. State universities are subsidized by state > > > > > > > > > > taxes, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > the overhead on external research funds. Tuition only > > > > > > > > > > accounts > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > 40% of the university budget. So, we can charge the > > > > > > > > > > economic > > > > > > > > > > rate > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > fees and tuitions, and then almost none of Ohio's citizens > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > able > > > > > > > > > > to afford to go to college. Go read the Morrill Act and see > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > intention of those wiser than you was. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why are medical services different from all > > > > > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > > > services > > > > > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > > it comes to paying for the services you receive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you paying for your children's education? Oh, yes, > > > > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > > > taxes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not paying yet. I am saving and I am saving quite a > > > > > > > > > > > bit. > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > will need about $30,000 a year saved up for each kid and > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > be about $1,500 a month out of pocket costs to me. Damn > > > > > > > > > > > kids > > > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > > > > to Ivy league schools. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not paying for their high school education? Surely > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > > in private schools or home schooled, just on principle. You > > > > > > > > > > know, > > > > > > > > > > personal responsibility and all that. > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely untrue. Private colleges can easily stay in > > > > > > > > > business > > > > > > > > > charging effectively about $200.00 per credit hour. Get rid > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > deadwood faculty, the excess administration and excess > > > > > > > > > physical > > > > > > > > > plant > > > > > > > > > and it's no problem. People should *ALWAYS* be able to choose > > > > > > > > > public > > > > > > > > > vs private in any situation, and either have the public > > > > > > > > > subsidy > > > > > > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > the *PEOPLE'S* choice, or fund public schools exclusively as > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > function of the number of students, with the allocation per > > > > > > > > > student > > > > > > > > > rigidly attached to the cost per student in private schools. > > > > > > > > > > You can only do that if you eliminate research in the sciences > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > technology. It's way too expensive for tuition only revenue > > > > > > > > streams, > > > > > > > > which is why relatively little of it in these fields is done in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > private schools. > > > > > > > > > Private schools like Harvard? Education is one thing, research > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > in any event. > > > > > > > > Indeed. tell me all about Harvard's engineering and technology > > > > > > research. > > > > > > > > There, that didn't take long, did it? > > > > > > > Long of what? Applied research should be done by those with an > > > > > interest in the application, like private business. Universities > > > > > should do only basic research. As it is now, you have a lot of > > > > > faculty > > > > > at a lot of Materials Science departments in public universities, > > > > > "inventing" a lot of useless "materials" hoping to hit some mother > > > > > lode...mostly a waste of time and money. While I have only gone to a > > > > > couple of materials science conferences, what amazed me was the > > > > > uselessness of most of what was being done. > > > > > > You are 180 degrees out of phase with all higher education > > > > philosophies. > > > > No surprise, that those that don't do research, don;t think anyone else > > > > should either. > > > > > > Which materials science "conferences" did you go to? Specifics, please. > > > > > You claim I don't do research. I'll bet you $US5K I have at least one > > > material sciences publication in a well respected symposium. I see no > > > evidence that you do research, BTW, other than operate an Em for other > > > people...and anyone here could learn to operate any EM. > > > > I repeat - what are these "materials science" conferences you claim to > > have gone to? Let's see the meeting date and venue, and then how about > > this important "materials science" manuscript of yours? > > > > Your stupid and ignorant comments about electron microscopy show just > > how peevishly petty you are. Have you NO professional standards? > > So you don't want to take the bet? No, because this is not an issue about "bets". It seems to me that you are trying this as a crude attempt to frighten off any scrutiny of your bogus claim to have a) attended any materials science meetings, and b) to have " at least one material sciences publication in a well respected symposium". I simply don't believe you, and in the world of academia such differences of opinion are discussed in the open, with no talk of "bets". So, are you going to abide by the standards of academia that you claim to uphold so strongly? My guess is you won't.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 27 Jan 2010 09:53 On Jan 27, 9:32 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- state.edu> wrote: > > No, because this is not an issue about "bets". It seems to me that you > are trying this as a crude attempt to frighten off any scrutiny of your > bogus claim to have a) attended any materials science meetings, and b) > to have " at least one material sciences publication in a well respected > symposium". I simply don't believe you, and in the world of academia > such differences of opinion are discussed in the open, with no talk of > "bets". > > So, are you going to abide by the standards of academia that you claim > to uphold so strongly? My guess is you won't. Reality is in no way subservient to what you choose to believe. There is no opinion at issue here, only a point of fact. Either I have or have not published in the area of materials science, and the fact is or isn't independent of what you think. I, of course, and as any rational person would expect, could care less what you think on the point of fact.
From: dene on 27 Jan 2010 13:14 "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote in message news:9997bb8b-6499-482d-9e17-c3be2bbe16b7(a)c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... On Jan 27, 9:32 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- state.edu> wrote: > > No, because this is not an issue about "bets". It seems to me that you > are trying this as a crude attempt to frighten off any scrutiny of your > bogus claim to have a) attended any materials science meetings, and b) > to have " at least one material sciences publication in a well respected > symposium". I simply don't believe you, and in the world of academia > such differences of opinion are discussed in the open, with no talk of > "bets". > > So, are you going to abide by the standards of academia that you claim > to uphold so strongly? My guess is you won't. Reality is in no way subservient to what you choose to believe. There is no opinion at issue here, only a point of fact. Either I have or have not published in the area of materials science, and the fact is or isn't independent of what you think. I, of course, and as any rational person would expect, could care less what you think on the point of fact. ------------------------------------------------------------ To hell with the $5 Rob. Just cite your facts so it will shut Billy up...for about 10 mins. -Greg
From: dene on 27 Jan 2010 13:16
"Howard Brazee" <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote in message news:ib1vl51u8hmf6i81s1sckv6ju4mnvgh9kh(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:13:23 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr > <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > > >Another nice thing about the Canadian system is that if Family doc > >decides you need to see a specialist, you have to get the referral > >from family doc. You don't get to choose to see a specialist if you > >want, only if family doc says it's OK, and then only a specialist of > >family docs choosing! > > Hey, that's what *my* insurance company does! That's the plan you chose, Howard. You can always change to a plan that doesn't have this requirement. In Canada, you do not have this option. -Greg |