From: Moderate on 20 Jan 2010 12:37
"Frank Ketchum" <nospam(a)thanksanyway.fu> wrote in message
> "Moderate" <sparky@_engineer_.com> wrote in message
>> A complete rejection of Obama's policies.
> There is no doubt.
>> Obama is a one termer.
> Not so fast there. 2012 is a long time away. I think that if this
> healthcare boondoggle is buried and cap and trade is dead (looks like it
> is) then you will see the economy rebound big time. There has been a
> serious amount of capital investment push back over the last 18 months and
> I think we are just starting to emerge. Get these two economy killing
> bills out of the way and the economy will roar back spurred by capital
> investment. There is a reason our economic system is called capitalism.
> At which point, team Obama will claim full credit for the economy. Just
> in time to start campaigning for re-election. Economic issues are the
> biggest issues that determine elections.
You are right about the next election hinging on the economy. The economy
determined the last election. The economy would have recovered on its own
without Bush's or Obama's bail outs. It depends on the amount of recovery.
The stock market has taken off and in my opinion it is rising at an
unsustainable rate. It will level off and dip, before 2012. If it starts
dropping in late 2011 or early 2012 it will gain downward momentum with the
From: Jack Hollis on 20 Jan 2010 12:44
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:21:18 -0600, bknight(a)conramp.net wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:56:41 -0500, "Frank Ketchum"
>>The lose of Ted's seat to a Republican in the middle of healthcare reform is
>>nothing short of remarkable. Watch and see what the markets do today.
>They've been falling all morning. The Dow is down almost 200 right
Buy on the rumor, sell on the news.
From: bknight on 20 Jan 2010 13:13
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:44:08 -0500, Jack Hollis <xsleeper(a)aol.com>
>On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:21:18 -0600, bknight(a)conramp.net wrote:
>>On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:56:41 -0500, "Frank Ketchum"
>>>The lose of Ted's seat to a Republican in the middle of healthcare reform is
>>>nothing short of remarkable. Watch and see what the markets do today.
>>They've been falling all morning. The Dow is down almost 200 right
>Buy on the rumor, sell on the news.
The news is that a Republican won Teddy Kennedy's seat Jack. So the
market sold on that fact, huh?
From: Howard Brazee on 20 Jan 2010 13:41
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:20:56 -0500, "R&B"
>It's the middleman -- the insurance companies themselves -- that MUST
>GO THE WAY OF COVERED WAGONS and become little more than a footnote in
>history. Sorry, Dene, but health insurance companies are nothing but
>pariahs who feed off the suffering of others.
Who has gotten a big hospital bill to find out that their insurance
company paid the whole amount? They've got expensive lawyers, so
the hospitals only get their full charge from the uninsured.
Who believes that is moral or good for the country?
>Those death panels Sarah Palin warned us about? They already exist.
>They're called insurance companies.
Yes, but it's OK if insurance companies do it, and it's OK if
insurance companies pay for abortions too, if they are getting their
money from people and their companies. It's only unacceptable if
there's tax money and elected politicians involved, right?
>What's worse (and ironic) is that the whole argument you make is based
>on a presumption of entitlement. Those of you on the right often like
>to make the argument that lesser-privileged individuals feel a sense of
Many times the basic value a person has is Conservativism or
Liberalism. When that's so, we can't argue about whether it is good
or bad for people. That only works when we have other, more basic
values, such as health and happiness.
Lots of people invest lots of effort to tell themselves that they are
Right. When I have good things happening to me, it's because I did
things right. When you have bad things happening to you, it's
because you were wrong. If you were just like me, then bad things
Of course, when bad things happen to me, it's the other guys' fault.
But I will still be rewarded after death, while you will be punished.
The way to make everybody happy though is to convert the other people
to my way. Even if I have to do a lot of bad things to get there.
This isn't limited to Conservatives, many Liberals & moderates are
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
From: dene on 20 Jan 2010 14:14
"Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:00:19 -0800, dene wrote:
> > "R&B" <none_of_your_business(a)all.com> wrote in message
> > news:2010012001542916807-noneofyourbusiness(a)allcom...
> >> Dene, the majority of voting Americans voted for Obama's agenda a
> >> year ago. Their disapproval now is not over how far-reaching his
> >> agenda has been. They voted for it. They voted for SWEEPING CHANGE.
> >> Their disapproval is over how little the Dems have been able to get
> >> done with the obstructionist right standing in their way at every
> >> step, and how watered-down the health care bill has become.
> > So you are among the small number of loons who do not think Obama is
> > left enough. No surprise. He's surrounded himself with your types
> > and they are completely out of touch with the pulse of America.
> > Yes....America voted for change, but not change that involves big
> > government, higher taxes, bailouts, and deficits. America is voting
> > for change once again and this time, it will be liberal Dems who get
> > the boot, starting with Reid.
> I think Randy is right about this. People did vote for sweeping change,
> especially for things like genuine healthcare reform. But the reality of
> Washington is that you cannot get something without giving something
> else away, and inevitably legislation becomes clogged with pork and
> give-aways to special interests. The current healthcare reform bill has
> been watered down to the extent that nobody likes it.
> The issue is not Obama. The issue is systemic corruption and a
> government more beholden to special interest groups than it is to
It's also too much, too quick. Reasonable steps can be taken systematically
to reform insurance, thereby dropping premiums. It's the one thing the
government can do...even the playing field all at once. For example, no
I think Obama knew in advance about the back room deals to get the Senate
votes. It's how they play the game in Chicago.