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From: Carbon on 28 Jan 2010 18:38 On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:49:09 -0800, dene wrote: > "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > news:4b60ed26$0$4886$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... >> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:01:38 -0800, dene wrote: >>> "William Clark" <clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in >>> message >>> news:clark-7E40D7.14134427012010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... >>>> In article <7sbdv4F9egU1(a)mid.individual.net>, "dene" >>>> <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: >>>>> "Howard Brazee" <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:ib1vl51u8hmf6i81s1sckv6ju4mnvgh9kh(a)4ax.com... >>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:13:23 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr >>>>>> <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Another nice thing about the Canadian system is that if Family >>>>>>> doc decides you need to see a specialist, you have to get the >>>>>>> referral from family doc. You don't get to choose to see a >>>>>>> specialist if you want, only if family doc says it's OK, and >>>>>>> then only a specialist of family docs choosing! >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey, that's what *my* insurance company does! >>>>> >>>>> That's the plan you chose, Howard. You can always change to a >>>>> plan that doesn't have this requirement. In Canada, you do not >>>>> have this option. >>>> >>>> Indeed, Howard, your option is to pay higher insurance premiums. >>>> The Canadians don't have that one, either. >>> >>> Uh Billy. Stick to what you know. Howard is on medicare. The >>> flexible plans to do cost anymore than the HMO plan he describes. >> >> Yeah, but it actually is way cheaper per capita there. Longer life >> expectancy too. But of course everyone already knows this... > > Please explain this. My recent exposure was Vancouver Island and the > real estate values there were very high. In talking to this couple, > they said the values haven't dropped much. Canada didn't have same > banking crisis we did, to your country's credit. > > However, with this 12% sales tax along with your other taxes, cost of > housing, how can you say it's cheaper to live there? Vancouver Island probably has the most expensive housing prices in the country, so it's hardly typical of anything. Canadian banks are well regulated, so the country was largely untouched by the shenanigans in less lawful markets. As for the taxes, you have to look at the whole picture. The upfront costs are higher, but everyone is paying into the healthcare pool. Everybody gets a humane baseline of medical care at no extra cost. The overall per capita spend on healthcare is about 2/3 of what it is here.
From: dene on 28 Jan 2010 20:40 "William Clark" <clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message news:clark-EAEF83.17501528012010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... > In article <7se42eFs99U1(a)mid.individual.net>, > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > "William Clark" <clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message > > news:clark-9908E8.09073328012010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... > > > In article <7sbvvkFna7U1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "William Clark" <wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote in message > > > > news:wclark2-3A8318.18075427012010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indeed, Howard, your option is to pay higher insurance premiums. > > The > > > > > > > Canadians don't have that one, either. > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh Billy. Stick to what you know. Howard is on medicare. The > > flexible > > > > > > plans to do cost anymore than the HMO plan he describes. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Greg > > > > > > > > > > So you agree with my point. If you want to be able to go directly to a > > > > > specialist, you have to pay higher insurance premiums. > > > > > > > > Not at all. Fee for service plans (PFFS) and Preferred Providers Plans > > > > (PPO) are often cheaper than the HMO medicare plan Howard describes. > > > > Neither require a referral to a specialist. The same is often true in > > the > > > > individual and group market. > > > > > > > > -Greg > > > > > > And often they are not. And often they have all sorts of gaps in > > > coverage and limits. > > > > Name the gaps. Name the coverage limits. Medicare plans do not take away > > anything from original medicare....they add to them. > > > > Again....you speak of that which you know nothing about. > > > > -Greg > > I'm talking about the standard health insurance plans, not Medicaid. The context is Medicare, since that is what Howard has. Medicaid is public assistance, aka welfare. Standard health insurance plans have gaps and limits in order to reduce abuse (like cosmetic, elective surgeries) and thus reduce premiums. So now that the terminology is clarified, what specific gaps or limits of standard insurance plans are you referring to? -Greg
From: dene on 28 Jan 2010 20:42 "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:4b621fe8$0$15008$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:49:09 -0800, dene wrote: > > "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > > news:4b60ed26$0$4886$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > >> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:01:38 -0800, dene wrote: > >>> "William Clark" <clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in > >>> message > >>> news:clark-7E40D7.14134427012010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... > >>>> In article <7sbdv4F9egU1(a)mid.individual.net>, "dene" > >>>> <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > >>>>> "Howard Brazee" <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote in message > >>>>> news:ib1vl51u8hmf6i81s1sckv6ju4mnvgh9kh(a)4ax.com... > >>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:13:23 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr > >>>>>> <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Another nice thing about the Canadian system is that if Family > >>>>>>> doc decides you need to see a specialist, you have to get the > >>>>>>> referral from family doc. You don't get to choose to see a > >>>>>>> specialist if you want, only if family doc says it's OK, and > >>>>>>> then only a specialist of family docs choosing! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hey, that's what *my* insurance company does! > >>>>> > >>>>> That's the plan you chose, Howard. You can always change to a > >>>>> plan that doesn't have this requirement. In Canada, you do not > >>>>> have this option. > >>>> > >>>> Indeed, Howard, your option is to pay higher insurance premiums. > >>>> The Canadians don't have that one, either. > >>> > >>> Uh Billy. Stick to what you know. Howard is on medicare. The > >>> flexible plans to do cost anymore than the HMO plan he describes. > >> > >> Yeah, but it actually is way cheaper per capita there. Longer life > >> expectancy too. But of course everyone already knows this... > > > > Please explain this. My recent exposure was Vancouver Island and the > > real estate values there were very high. In talking to this couple, > > they said the values haven't dropped much. Canada didn't have same > > banking crisis we did, to your country's credit. > > > > However, with this 12% sales tax along with your other taxes, cost of > > housing, how can you say it's cheaper to live there? > > Vancouver Island probably has the most expensive housing prices in the > country, so it's hardly typical of anything. You mean housing is cheaper in Alberta?? > Canadian banks are well regulated, so the country was largely untouched > by the shenanigans in less lawful markets. You mean your government didn't force the banks into making mortgage loans to people who couldn't afford them. Good on them. > As for the taxes, you have to look at the whole picture. The upfront > costs are higher, but everyone is paying into the healthcare pool. > Everybody gets a humane baseline of medical care at no extra cost. The > overall per capita spend on healthcare is about 2/3 of what it is here. I question this, in light of your income taxes and now a 12% sales tax. I cannot imagine a more regressive tax than the latter. Good luck with that. -Greg
From: dene on 28 Jan 2010 20:45 "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:4b621db1$0$4972$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:52:43 -0800, dene wrote: > > "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > > news:4b60edba$0$4886$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > >> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:17:06 -0800, dene wrote: > >>> "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > >>> news:4b5f933c$0$4977$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > >>>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:36:45 -0800, dene wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It's interesting that those who support the single pay system do > >>>>> not live in the countries which have it. The Canadian who still > >>>>> lives in Canada, Alan Baker, is not enthusiastic about it. > >>>>> Perhaps this is why. > >>>> > >>>> The Canadian system is not without its problems. However, it is > >>>> still vastly better than the US system. > >>> > >>> America disagrees. > >> > >> I don't want to hurt your feelings Greg, but America is surprisingly > >> clueless about many things. > > > > America has 320 million people, Carbs. Canada has 30 million. Do you > > honestly think the US federal government would efficient manage this > > program for 320 million people? While you ponder, I'll give you a one > > word clue behind our thinking.... > > > > Medicare. > > Population density is actually an advantage. Imagine the difficulty in > providing healthcare to residents of the Canadian North. > > Medicare is used as a scare word, but one program within a profit-based > system is nothing like universal healthcare. Medicare is not profit based. It's an entitlement, same as Canada's health care program. Our federal gov't does a lousy job with managing medicare. It would be worse if they managed the whole kit-kaboodle. -Greg
From: Carbon on 28 Jan 2010 20:51
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:42:49 -0800, dene wrote: > "Carbon" <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > news:4b621fe8$0$15008$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... >> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:49:09 -0800, dene wrote: >> >>> However, with this 12% sales tax along with your other taxes, cost >>> of housing, how can you say it's cheaper to live there? >> >> Vancouver Island probably has the most expensive housing prices in >> the country, so it's hardly typical of anything. > > You mean housing is cheaper in Alberta?? Much. >> As for the taxes, you have to look at the whole picture. The upfront >> costs are higher, but everyone is paying into the healthcare pool. >> Everybody gets a humane baseline of medical care at no extra cost. >> The overall per capita spend on healthcare is about 2/3 of what it is >> here. > > I question this, in light of your income taxes and now a 12% sales > tax. I cannot imagine a more regressive tax than the latter. Good > luck with that. Again, with a sales tax everybody pays in. So when the lower classes buy cigarettes and beer the taxes they pay offset trips to emergency. Even if they're only making 20k/yr or even on welfare, they're still paying for healthcare. That way, I don't get soaked $600+ for talking to a doctor for one (1) minute. My opinion: any sane person who lived with universal healthcare for any reasonable period of time would come to prefer it to the US system. |