On Improving Lag (continued)
in [Golf]
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From: Rob Davis on 26 Nov 2006 20:02 Dave Lee wrote: > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first > posted on 10/5/06. > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of > improving lag? It seems to me that the most important thing to getting proper lag is the transition and beginning of the downswing. If you can get started down correctly, without casting the club, then the rest will somewhat take care of itself. I'm not convinced (for myself at least) how much you can really "hold" the lag once the downswing really gets going. I've been working a lot on this recently myself ... foot work, weight shift, proper start down with my arms. One thing that seems to help me is to be aware of and have a real feel for the weight of the clubhead .... almost weightless at the top, and then the feel is one of "dragging" the clubhead down ... maintaining that "pull" and keep the hands moving ahead of the club. A little hard to put into words, but it's a swing thought that's really been working well for me recently, both on the range and during a round. BTW, that "pump drill" is one I've read about several times and occasionally do myself. Sounds like a good idea and worth doing for a while. Rob
From: Dave Lee on 26 Nov 2006 21:01 "Rob Davis" <davis.rob(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:ZOqah.12143$oP6.4155(a)trnddc03... > Dave Lee wrote: > > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first > > posted on 10/5/06. > > > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of > > improving lag? > > It seems to me that the most important thing to getting proper lag is > the transition and beginning of the downswing. If you can get started > down correctly, without casting the club, then the rest will somewhat > take care of itself. I'm not convinced (for myself at least) how much > you can really "hold" the lag once the downswing really gets going. My experience is different (who wudda' thunk it). My lag (even when I am not working on it) increases from it's value at the top until the point at which my hands are just below my shoulders. My problems start at that point. And as you observed, further control from there is difficult at best. dave >snip
From: Silvio Bierman on 27 Nov 2006 00:13 "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message news:PFrah.3520$ql2.1187(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > "Rob Davis" <davis.rob(a)verizon.net> wrote in message > news:ZOqah.12143$oP6.4155(a)trnddc03... >> Dave Lee wrote: >> > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject >> > first >> > posted on 10/5/06. >> > >> > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question > of >> > improving lag? >> >> It seems to me that the most important thing to getting proper lag is >> the transition and beginning of the downswing. If you can get started >> down correctly, without casting the club, then the rest will somewhat >> take care of itself. I'm not convinced (for myself at least) how much >> you can really "hold" the lag once the downswing really gets going. > > My experience is different (who wudda' thunk it). My lag (even when I am > not > working on it) increases from it's value at the top until the point at > which > my hands are just below my shoulders. My problems start at that point. And > as you observed, further control from there is difficult at best. > > dave > >>snip > > Decreasing lag from that point on indicates either hand action or decceleration. It might be both. I used to have this problem and my getting handsy early in the swing was purely caused by bad tempo (to abrupt change from backswing to downswing). When I got rid of that the handsyness was gone as well. Silvio Bierman
From: Birdie Bill on 27 Nov 2006 07:52 On Nov 26, 1:27 pm, "Dave Lee" <DaveLe...(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote: > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my normal > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the case > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach (directly) of > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball. This has been the main focus of my current set of lessons. I'm close to cracking this nut. I do have video of my swing at impact with my hands ahead of the the ball at impact with the right wrist still "set" (hinged back towards the forearm). These swings occur towards the end of my practice sessions, though, and not what I get right from the start. Still, this is the best results I've ever achieved, so I'm pretty happy with the lessons. My pro has given me several drills, some of which I've posted here in other threads. Google is your friend for those. Here are a few other thoughts, To make it simple, I'm just talking irons, in particular, midirons. The differences with other clubs are due to ball position and clublength, etc., but I won't go into that. All pros arrive at impact with their hands ahead ot the ball and trailing wrist (right for right-handers) hinged backward (set). The release occurs through impact, not before impact. This is not optional. If your trailing wrist has lost it's set at the start of impact and is straight, instead of hinged back, then you have lost lag and flipped, or in the process of flipping. Conversely, if you arrive at impact with your wrist set, it is proof that you haven't lost lag and flipped. My pro says that this can happen "automatically", but there is no problem with conciously being aware of keeping this wrist set. Just also be aware that the forearms are rolling, too, through impact, unless you want to block the ball. One training aid that I've found very helpful is the "Chip and Pitch" shaft extension. Attach to the end of your club, and start off with chips and pitches and work up from there. If the extension touches your side, you know you have flipped. You can even make full iron swings with it. Another big piece of the puzzle is hip turn. I've had several pros tell me a major cause of flipping is not clearing the hips. The tour average is hips 40 degrees open at impact. You need to drive your swing with your hips. If you can't see both butt cheeks at impact, you need to work on it. I had a big problem with this due to lifting my head on the backswing. After I learned how to stay balanced by keeping my head down, it was much easier to clear the hips. I think in the past I might have been afraid of staying down for fear of hitting fat. However, if you maintain lag, you can stay a lot lower. In fact, you need to stay lower that you do if you flip. Of course, it also helps if you are swinging "on plane", and have good posture, and other fundamentals, otherwise what I am saying is probably irrelevant.
From: KnighT on 27 Nov 2006 12:44
Always Sustain the Lag....all the way to finish. You might be aware that there are 3 different methods of loading the lag during your swing. This is a very important component of the swing(it is 1 of the 24 components). Drag loading - for swinging, longitudinal acceleration of the club. The lag is loaded at start down. Drive loading - for hitting, radial acceleration of the club. The lag is loaded during the backswing due to the body resisting the backswing motion. Float loading - swinging or hitting. Load the lag as early as possible, as late as possible, or somewhere inbetween. An important note is the sensation of lag pressure on the right index finger. This will rotate a quarter turn to the top of the shaft at the top for swinging due to the position of the right elbow under the shaft. Then it should rotate back to the back of the club for release and impact. For Hitting the lag pressure point always stays smack behind the back of the shaft. All this can be substituted for 1 simple feeling because maintaining this lag pressure with a golf club gives the EXACT SAME FEELING AS DRAGING A WET MOP THROUGH IMPACT. Try it. It really is the same exact feeling. Just get a club and drop it on your target line about 6-12 inches behind your right foot. Make sure you have some nice grass or thick/fuzzy carpet so the leading edge of the club will catch onto it. Get into your posture with your normal grip, and with the club resting on the ground use your left side to pull, or your right side to push. Both will cause the clubhead to drag on the ground. Drag it all the way through to finish. When the clubhead gets to about your left shoulder it will no longer be on the ground. It will rise up, even though you are still going DOWN at your straight plane line. Flipping with the hands/wrists does not jive with this motion/feeling. This is the biggest shortcut to learning the correct feeling of impact. If you feel a straight line from the clubhead up to your left shoulder throughout this dragging, you are on the right track. If your hands feel very large and fixed to the club you are on the right track. Also, lag pressure should be constant. Once you load the lag, then you sustain it. There is no more lag to load during any other parts of the swing. Trying to create more lag on the downswing might cause over-acceleration. Sustain the lag = Sustain the line of compression = the secret of golf (don't tell anybody....it's a secret) Dave Lee wrote: > "Rob Davis" <davis.rob(a)verizon.net> wrote in message > news:ZOqah.12143$oP6.4155(a)trnddc03... > > Dave Lee wrote: > > > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first > > > posted on 10/5/06. > > > > > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question > of > > > improving lag? > > > > It seems to me that the most important thing to getting proper lag is > > the transition and beginning of the downswing. If you can get started > > down correctly, without casting the club, then the rest will somewhat > > take care of itself. I'm not convinced (for myself at least) how much > > you can really "hold" the lag once the downswing really gets going. > > My experience is different (who wudda' thunk it). My lag (even when I am not > working on it) increases from it's value at the top until the point at which > my hands are just below my shoulders. My problems start at that point. And > as you observed, further control from there is difficult at best. > > dave > > >snip |