On Improving Lag (continued)
in [Golf]
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From: Dave Lee on 27 Nov 2006 16:19 "KnighT" <bryanjunk777(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1164649466.711531.156000(a)14g2000cws.googlegroups.com... > Always Sustain the Lag....all the way to finish. You might be aware > that there are 3 different methods of loading the lag during your > swing. This is a very important component of the swing(it is 1 of the > 24 components). > > Drag loading - for swinging, longitudinal acceleration of the club. > The lag is loaded at start down. > Drive loading - for hitting, radial acceleration of the club. The lag > is loaded during the backswing due to the body resisting the backswing > motion. > Float loading - swinging or hitting. Load the lag as early as > possible, as late as possible, or somewhere inbetween. > > An important note is the sensation of lag pressure on the right index > finger. This will rotate a quarter turn to the top of the shaft at the > top for swinging due to the position of the right elbow under the > shaft. Then it should rotate back to the back of the club for release > and impact. For Hitting the lag pressure point always stays smack > behind the back of the shaft. > > All this can be substituted for 1 simple feeling because maintaining > this lag pressure with a golf club gives the EXACT SAME FEELING AS > DRAGING A WET MOP THROUGH IMPACT. Try it. It really is the same exact > feeling. Just get a club and drop it on your target line about 6-12 > inches behind your right foot. Make sure you have some nice grass or > thick/fuzzy carpet so the leading edge of the club will catch onto it. > Get into your posture with your normal grip, and with the club resting > on the ground use your left side to pull, or your right side to push. > Both will cause the clubhead to drag on the ground. Drag it all the > way through to finish. When the clubhead gets to about your left > shoulder it will no longer be on the ground. It will rise up, even > though you are still going DOWN at your straight plane line. Flipping > with the hands/wrists does not jive with this motion/feeling. This is > the biggest shortcut to learning the correct feeling of impact. If you > feel a straight line from the clubhead up to your left shoulder > throughout this dragging, you are on the right track. If your hands > feel very large and fixed to the club you are on the right track. > > Also, lag pressure should be constant. Once you load the lag, then you > sustain it. There is no more lag to load during any other parts of the > swing. Trying to create more lag on the downswing might cause > over-acceleration. > > Sustain the lag = Sustain the line of compression = the secret of golf > (don't tell anybody....it's a secret) > > Dave Lee wrote: snip I've read of lag pressure, but am not sure that I have ever felt it. I'm curious - do you feel this when you take a "serious practice swing" as well as a real swing at a ball? I ask because the lag in my "serious practice swings" is quite good, but the pressure that I feel is not any different. Thanks. dave
From: Dave Lee on 27 Nov 2006 16:48 "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1164631953.354447.309730(a)45g2000cws.googlegroups.com... > > > On Nov 26, 1:27 pm, "Dave Lee" <DaveLe...(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote: > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of > > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my normal > > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the case > > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach (directly) of > > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball. > > This has been the main focus of my current set of lessons. > I'm close to cracking this nut. I do have video of my swing > at impact with my hands ahead of the the ball at impact > with the right wrist still "set" (hinged back towards the > forearm). These swings occur towards the end of my > practice sessions, though, and not what I get right from the > start. Still, this is the best results I've ever achieved, so > I'm pretty happy with the lessons. > > My pro has given me several drills, some of which I've posted > here in other threads. Google is your friend for those. Here > are a few other thoughts, To make it simple, I'm just talking > irons, in particular, midirons. The differences with other clubs > are due to ball position and clublength, etc., but I won't > go into that. > > All pros arrive at impact with their hands ahead ot the ball and > trailing wrist (right for right-handers) hinged backward (set). > The release occurs through impact, not before impact. > This is not optional. If your trailing wrist has lost it's set at the > start of impact and is straight, instead of hinged back, then you > have lost lag and flipped, or in the process of flipping. > Conversely, if you arrive at impact with your wrist set, it is proof > that you haven't lost lag and flipped. > > My pro says that this can happen "automatically", but there is > no problem with conciously being aware of keeping this wrist set. > Just also be aware that the forearms are rolling, too, through > impact, unless you want to block the ball. > > One training aid that I've found very helpful is the "Chip and > Pitch" shaft extension. Attach to the end of your club, and start > off with chips and pitches and work up from there. If the > extension touches your side, you know you have flipped. You > can even make full iron swings with it. > > Another big piece of the puzzle is hip turn. I've had several > pros tell me a major cause of flipping is not clearing the hips. > The tour average is hips 40 degrees open at impact. You > need to drive your swing with your hips. If you can't see both > butt cheeks at impact, you need to work on it. > > I had a big problem with this due to lifting my head on the > backswing. After I learned how to stay balanced by keeping > my head down, it was much easier to clear the hips. > > I think in the past I might have been afraid of staying down > for fear of hitting fat. However, if you maintain lag, you can > stay a lot lower. In fact, you need to stay lower that you do > if you flip. > > Of course, it also helps if you are swinging "on plane", and > have good posture, and other fundamentals, otherwise what > I am saying is probably irrelevant. > Bill, I probably will go back to working on hip turn some more. I have abandoned efforts in this area twice because it just wasn't effective. But I may well not have put enough effort/time into it. dave
From: Birdie Bill on 27 Nov 2006 19:01 On Nov 27, 3:48 pm, "Dave Lee" <DaveLe...(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote: > Bill, I probably will go back to working on hip turn some more. I have > abandoned efforts in this area twice because it just wasn't effective. But I > may well not have put enough effort/time into it. Dave, I don't think that the hip turn is the automatic magic solution to the lag problem, but it puts you into a much better position at impact. In other words, it increases your odds of success, but you can still screw it up. I think there is no substitute for "educated hands", but a good hip turn can make it much easier to avoid flipping.
From: Howard Brazee on 27 Nov 2006 19:56 On 27 Nov 2006 16:01:40 -0800, "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >Dave, I don't think that the hip turn is the automatic magic solution >to the lag problem, but it puts you into a much better position at >impact. In other words, it increases your odds of success, but >you can still screw it up. I think there is no substitute for >"educated >hands", but a good hip turn can make it much easier to avoid flipping. I agree - controlling hip turn doesn't help the lag - but it does help make my shots square. And oddly enough, it helps me not hit fat. Lag isn't my problem, hitting square is.
From: George Hibbard on 27 Nov 2006 20:18
"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message news:C2Jah.4093$tM1.412(a)newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:1164631953.354447.309730(a)45g2000cws.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> On Nov 26, 1:27 pm, "Dave Lee" <DaveLe...(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote: >> > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question > of >> > improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my > normal >> > practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the > case >> > for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach > (directly) of >> > just making my 'practice swing' at the ball. >> >> This has been the main focus of my current set of lessons. >> I'm close to cracking this nut. I do have video of my swing >> at impact with my hands ahead of the the ball at impact >> with the right wrist still "set" (hinged back towards the >> forearm). These swings occur towards the end of my >> practice sessions, though, and not what I get right from the >> start. Still, this is the best results I've ever achieved, so >> I'm pretty happy with the lessons. >> >> My pro has given me several drills, some of which I've posted >> here in other threads. Google is your friend for those. Here >> are a few other thoughts, To make it simple, I'm just talking >> irons, in particular, midirons. The differences with other clubs >> are due to ball position and clublength, etc., but I won't >> go into that. >> >> All pros arrive at impact with their hands ahead ot the ball and >> trailing wrist (right for right-handers) hinged backward (set). >> The release occurs through impact, not before impact. >> This is not optional. If your trailing wrist has lost it's set at the >> start of impact and is straight, instead of hinged back, then you >> have lost lag and flipped, or in the process of flipping. >> Conversely, if you arrive at impact with your wrist set, it is proof >> that you haven't lost lag and flipped. >> >> My pro says that this can happen "automatically", but there is >> no problem with conciously being aware of keeping this wrist set. >> Just also be aware that the forearms are rolling, too, through >> impact, unless you want to block the ball. >> >> One training aid that I've found very helpful is the "Chip and >> Pitch" shaft extension. Attach to the end of your club, and start >> off with chips and pitches and work up from there. If the >> extension touches your side, you know you have flipped. You >> can even make full iron swings with it. >> >> Another big piece of the puzzle is hip turn. I've had several >> pros tell me a major cause of flipping is not clearing the hips. >> The tour average is hips 40 degrees open at impact. You >> need to drive your swing with your hips. If you can't see both >> butt cheeks at impact, you need to work on it. >> >> I had a big problem with this due to lifting my head on the >> backswing. After I learned how to stay balanced by keeping >> my head down, it was much easier to clear the hips. >> >> I think in the past I might have been afraid of staying down >> for fear of hitting fat. However, if you maintain lag, you can >> stay a lot lower. In fact, you need to stay lower that you do >> if you flip. >> >> Of course, it also helps if you are swinging "on plane", and >> have good posture, and other fundamentals, otherwise what >> I am saying is probably irrelevant. >> > > Bill, I probably will go back to working on hip turn some more. I have > abandoned efforts in this area twice because it just wasn't effective. But > I > may well not have put enough effort/time into it. > > dave > > Lag needs to exist in the entire power train, knees through hips through torso through shoulders through hands to clubhead. Unless the hips turn is EXERTED TO DRIVE THE ARMS AND PULL THE CLUB/PUSH THE CLUB HANDLE END, then hip turn would become a disconnected irrelevant item. The hips turn IN ORDER TO DRIVE that end of the whole swinging mechanism. I counsel pupils to "hit the ball with the inside of your right leg / with your groin!" Because THAT location mid body, in the right hip driving down and out, is part of the drive train. So it is not simply a "convenience" to clear the hips: they are an essential in PRODUCING energy that works its way out to the clubhead. |