From: Rob Davis on
KnighT wrote:
> All this can be substituted for 1 simple feeling because maintaining
> this lag pressure with a golf club gives the EXACT SAME FEELING AS
> DRAGING A WET MOP THROUGH IMPACT. Try it. It really is the same exact
> feeling.

This sounds a lot like what I mentioned before, and is one of my main
swing thoughts these days ... an awareness of the weight of the clubhead
and the feeling of dragging the clubhead down from the top and
maintaining that "drag" feel ... as if you were pulling a weight on a
string through some water, you have to keep pulling on it or it will sink.

From: Steve on
> Another big piece of the puzzle is hip turn. I've had several
> pros tell me a major cause of flipping is not clearing the hips.
> The tour average is hips 40 degrees open at impact. You
> need to drive your swing with your hips. If you can't see both
> butt cheeks at impact, you need to work on it.
> I had a big problem with this due to lifting my head on the
> backswing. After I learned how to stay balanced by keeping
> my head down, it was much easier to clear the hips.

There was a Golf Channel Academy show a week or so ago where they had some
celebrity actor on I had never heard of and showed his swing in slow motion
and it look fairly decent and then showed Tiger's and the HUGE difference
was the amount of hip turn Tiger had at impact. Shoulders fairly square to
the target, hips pointing way left.

From: Birdie Bill on

On Nov 27, 6:56 pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)> wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 16:01:40 -0800, "Birdie Bill"
> <bighorn_b...(a)> wrote:
> >Dave, I don't think that the hip turn is the automatic magic solution
> >to the lag problem, but it puts you into a much better position at
> >impact. In other words, it increases your odds of success, but
> >you can still screw it up. I think there is no substitute for
> >"educated
> >hands", but a good hip turn can make it much easier to avoid flipping.
>I agree - controlling hip turn doesn't help the lag - but it does help
> make my shots square. And oddly enough, it helps me not hit fat. Lag
> isn't my problem, hitting square is.

Howard, I don't agree with what you are agreeing to.
In my opinion/experience, a good hip turn DOES help lag
- but it is still possible to screw up if you do something
else wrong. It is necessary to do the hip turn right,
and not "spin out", for example.

I agree with the part about hitting the ball straighter, though,
and I'm seeing a noticeable increase in distance.

From: curtjester1 on

KnighT wrote:
> Always Sustain the Lag....all the way to finish. You might be aware
> that there are 3 different methods of loading the lag during your
> swing. This is a very important component of the swing(it is 1 of the
> 24 components).
My personal opinion is that if you don't get rid of the lag by impact,
then there is a problem.

> Drag loading - for swinging, longitudinal acceleration of the club.
> The lag is loaded at start down.
> Drive loading - for hitting, radial acceleration of the club. The lag
> is loaded during the backswing due to the body resisting the backswing
> motion.
> Float loading - swinging or hitting. Load the lag as early as
> possible, as late as possible, or somewhere inbetween.
I think lag is independent of these types of swings, even though this
is very good description of swings that aren't usually discussed. One
can hit the ball very well without any lag at all.

> An important note is the sensation of lag pressure on the right index
> finger. This will rotate a quarter turn to the top of the shaft at the
> top for swinging due to the position of the right elbow under the
> shaft. Then it should rotate back to the back of the club for release
> and impact. For Hitting the lag pressure point always stays smack
> behind the back of the shaft.
Good stuff, but lag and pressure point is different. Your right index
finger is a resistance inducer, and it can be used effectively, but not
necessary for every type of swing.

> All this can be substituted for 1 simple feeling because maintaining
> this lag pressure with a golf club gives the EXACT SAME FEELING AS
> DRAGING A WET MOP THROUGH IMPACT. Try it. It really is the same exact
> feeling. Just get a club and drop it on your target line about 6-12
> inches behind your right foot. Make sure you have some nice grass or
> thick/fuzzy carpet so the leading edge of the club will catch onto it.
> Get into your posture with your normal grip, and with the club resting
> on the ground use your left side to pull, or your right side to push.
> Both will cause the clubhead to drag on the ground. Drag it all the
> way through to finish. When the clubhead gets to about your left
> shoulder it will no longer be on the ground. It will rise up, even
> though you are still going DOWN at your straight plane line. Flipping
> with the hands/wrists does not jive with this motion/feeling. This is
> the biggest shortcut to learning the correct feeling of impact. If you
> feel a straight line from the clubhead up to your left shoulder
> throughout this dragging, you are on the right track. If your hands
> feel very large and fixed to the club you are on the right track.
Dragging a wet mop is a good way to look at an effective swing.
Flipping wrists is just a style and you are correct in saying that if
you are doing 'the mop' the flipping will be non-exist, but it doesn't
mean that rolling wrists can't be used before 'the mop'.

> Also, lag pressure should be constant. Once you load the lag, then you
> sustain it. There is no more lag to load during any other parts of the
> swing. Trying to create more lag on the downswing might cause
> over-acceleration.
I think if you subsitute the word resistance for lag, there will be
better understanding and results.

> Sustain the lag = Sustain the line of compression = the secret of golf
> (don't tell's a secret)
The secret is in the thumbs!


> Dave Lee wrote:
> > "Rob Davis" <davis.rob(a)> wrote in message
> > news:ZOqah.12143$oP6.4155(a)trnddc03...
> > > Dave Lee wrote:
> > > > This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
> > > > posted on 10/5/06.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question
> > of
> > > > improving lag?
> > >
> > > It seems to me that the most important thing to getting proper lag is
> > > the transition and beginning of the downswing. If you can get started
> > > down correctly, without casting the club, then the rest will somewhat
> > > take care of itself. I'm not convinced (for myself at least) how much
> > > you can really "hold" the lag once the downswing really gets going.
> >
> > My experience is different (who wudda' thunk it). My lag (even when I am not
> > working on it) increases from it's value at the top until the point at which
> > my hands are just below my shoulders. My problems start at that point. And
> > as you observed, further control from there is difficult at best.
> >
> > dave
> >
> > >snip

From: KnighT on
Remember, there are 3 types of lag. Some people are refering to pivot
lag and others are referring to clubhead lag. Both are good, but they
are different. The third type is accumulator lag.


I have been thinking about your question since yesterday. In my
practice swings I look for different feels that I want during my swing.
Focusing on loading lag pressure usually works nicely because I will
find the length of stroke that I want and find the point where the lag
is loaded. So I try to find where that will happen and what it will
feel like before I hit the shot. Instead of playing a guessing game
and just hitting the ball with no practice swings. That is how I
played in the past, but I have found I play much better when I rehearse
before my shot.

The loading of the lag is the same with the practice swing, but the
sensation around the point of impact is obviously different.

I thought you were trying to improve lag....not find it. If that is
the case then, have you ever read Ben Hogan's '5 lessons' ? He
suggests swinging the club with your right thumb and forefinger off of
the club. I find this a great way to find my lag pressure point. It
is great to hit balls like this. You can also swing with only your
right thumb taken off the grip. Hitting balls both ways is a great way
to find your clubhead lag. I think that is how I really first starting
getting feedback from my right index finger. Just combine that with
the old 'drag my wet mop' and you will find that lag.

Tell me what you feel when you drag the club on the ground past your
right foot, then left foot. What do you feel when you hit chip shots
with your right thumb and forefinger off the club ?

Dave Lee wrote:
> > Dave Lee wrote:
> snip
> I've read of lag pressure, but am not sure that I have ever felt it. I'm
> curious - do you feel this when you take a "serious practice swing" as well
> as a real swing at a ball? I ask because the lag in my "serious practice
> swings" is quite good, but the pressure that I feel is not any different.
> Thanks.
> dave