Prev: Iliolumbar Ligament
Next: Review: Manzella's "Confessions of a Flipper"
From: Dave Lee on 26 Nov 2006 14:27
This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
posted on 10/5/06.

FWIW, the timing is perfect as it looks like I'll have some time to think
about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little toe of my
right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break that
thing?'. Swelling the beginning of blood pooling in my foot tentatively
confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't much to be
done about that.

Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a standard
fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out, weight on
the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool went
sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely aggravating an
old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously banging
the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.

The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my annual visit
with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on improving
my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.

My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to Dr. Carey
Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is drill based
mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized teaching
aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and full
swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem.

The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the 'dagger
drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly where your
hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist angle.
You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the backswing
a few times before actually hitting the ball.

I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag properly
when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a definite
improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step (after
some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller swings with
the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something that
(from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in the
dagger drill.

My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would be to
have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.

Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of
improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my normal
practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the case
for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach (directly) of
just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.

Thanks.

dave


From: George Hibbard on 26 Nov 2006 15:03

"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message
news:2Vlah.3483$sf5.489(a)newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
> posted on 10/5/06.
>
> FWIW, the timing is perfect as it looks like I'll have some time to think
> about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little toe of
> my
> right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break that
> thing?'. Swelling the beginning of blood pooling in my foot tentatively
> confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't much to
> be
> done about that.
>
> Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a standard
> fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out, weight on
> the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool went
> sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely aggravating an
> old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously banging
> the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
>
> The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my annual
> visit
> with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on
> improving
> my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
>
> My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to Dr.
> Carey
> Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is drill
> based
> mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized
> teaching
> aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and full
> swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem.
>
> The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the 'dagger
> drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
> well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly where
> your
> hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist angle.
> You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the
> backswing
> a few times before actually hitting the ball.
>
> I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag properly
> when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a definite
> improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step (after
> some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller swings
> with
> the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something that
> (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in the
> dagger drill.
>
> My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would be to
> have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
>
> Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of
> improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my normal
> practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the case
> for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach (directly)
> of
> just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
>
> Thanks.
>
> dave
>
>
When videotaping a pupil with a similar drill of this kind, we discovered in
replay that the release of the L angle took exactly TWO FRAMES of space:
that when the hands moved about 3 inches the clubhead moved about 3 feet.
And this was with various length backswings, such that if the backswing were
"to the top," the release would occur too easy and be wasted by the time the
hands got to the right pants leg. When the downswing STARTED with the hands
no higher than the belt, it was possible to START the release when the hands
reached mid body - in front of the pants zipper, and in two frames, about 3
inches of travel, the clubhead traveled from where the shaft was level with
the ground all the way to the ball.

So the problem is not "can I release the club fast enough" at all. It is I
HAVE TO STOP TRYING TO GO BACK SO DARN FAR, and I HAVE TO STOP WORRYING
ABOUT WILL THE CLUBHEAD RELEASE SOON ENOUGH. The exact opposite things
occur than are expected: the club and arms had better NOT go back so far,
and if I act to apply any pressure at all ON the shaft to advance the club
IT RELEASES FAR TOO SOON.

This is for early in one's development. This is not for an advanced or more
skilled player who controls his timing better.

When replayed, pupils simply cannot believe what they see in slo mo and stop
frame. It is very dramatic, and instructive, to do this.



From: George Hibbard on 26 Nov 2006 15:16
Posted to correct a typo below: not "too easy..." "too EARLY"



"George Hibbard" <gh(a)perfectimpact.com> wrote in message
news:kqmah.25149$m9.11267(a)bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message
> news:2Vlah.3483$sf5.489(a)newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> This is kind of a continuation of the thread with the same Subject first
>> posted on 10/5/06.
>>
>> FWIW, the timing is perfect as it looks like I'll have some time to think
>> about this vs. work on it. Last Sunday evening I caught the little toe of
>> my
>> right foot on a bedframe. When it happened I wondered 'did I break that
>> thing?'. Swelling the beginning of blood pooling in my foot tentatively
>> confirmed that suspicion the next morning. But there really isn't much to
>> be
>> done about that.
>>
>> Then yesterday I was doing some painting in the house and using a
>> standard
>> fold-up (two-step) stepstool. I took my usual foot pointing out, weight
>> on
>> the inside step up to keep weight off the toe, and the stepstool went
>> sideways, I went sideways, and I torque'ed my knee severely aggravating
>> an
>> old (and quite frankly forgotten) knee injury while simultaneously
>> banging
>> the injured toe. It'll be a few days before I'm swinging the club.
>>
>> The toe event actually happened in a motel room while making my annual
>> visit
>> with my teaching pro. We had agreed ahead of time that working on
>> improving
>> my lag would be the goal of this year's trip.
>>
>> My pro's philosophy toward making swing changes is very similar to Dr.
>> Carey
>> Mumford's "Clear Key" perspective on things. In a nutshell it is drill
>> based
>> mixing 'doing it right' however that might be achieved (customized
>> teaching
>> aids, slow motion movement, break the swing into pieces, etc) and full
>> swings. I find it to be a sound approach to the problem.
>>
>> The drill that he has me doing is something that he calls the 'dagger
>> drill'. It is similar to 'the pump drill' which I think is fairly
>> well-known. You take your backswing and then downswing to roughly where
>> your
>> hands are even with the ball being VERY careful to hold your wrist angle.
>> You then pump back/forth between this position and the top of the
>> backswing
>> a few times before actually hitting the ball.
>>
>> I've been quite surprised to find that I can't even hold my lag properly
>> when hitting the ball in the dagger drill, although there is a definite
>> improvement in coming into the ball from the inside. My next step (after
>> some recovery time) will be to start taking smaller and smaller swings
>> with
>> the dagger drill (probably with a SW or LW) until I find something that
>> (from a lag perspective) I can do correctly when hitting the ball in the
>> dagger drill.
>>
>> My teaching pro doesn't object to this, but his first choice would be to
>> have me stick with the full swing dagger drill swings.
>>
>> Thoughts or opinions on this specific question or the general question of
>> improving lag? BTW I continue to be fascinated by the fact that my normal
>> practice swing has very good lag and I assume that this has been the case
>> for many years. Some time ago I gave up on taking the approach (directly)
>> of
>> just making my 'practice swing' at the ball.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> dave
>>
>>
> When videotaping a pupil with a similar drill of this kind, we discovered
> in replay that the release of the L angle took exactly TWO FRAMES of
> space: that when the hands moved about 3 inches the clubhead moved about 3
> feet. And this was with various length backswings, such that if the
> backswing were "to the top," the release would occur TOO EARLY (posted to
> correct a typo) -- and be wasted by the time the hands got to the right
> pants leg. When the downswing STARTED with the hands no higher than the
> belt, it was possible to START the release when the hands reached mid
> body - in front of the pants zipper, and in two frames, about 3 inches of
> travel, the clubhead traveled from where the shaft was level with the
> ground all the way to the ball.
>
> So the problem is not "can I release the club fast enough" at all. It is
> I HAVE TO STOP TRYING TO GO BACK SO DARN FAR, and I HAVE TO STOP WORRYING
> ABOUT WILL THE CLUBHEAD RELEASE SOON ENOUGH. The exact opposite things
> occur than are expected: the club and arms had better NOT go back so far,
> and if I act to apply any pressure at all ON the shaft to advance the club
> IT RELEASES FAR TOO SOON.
>
> This is for early in one's development. This is not for an advanced or
> more skilled player who controls his timing better.
>
> When replayed, pupils simply cannot believe what they see in slo mo and
> stop frame. It is very dramatic, and instructive, to do this.
>
>
>


From: Dave Lee on 26 Nov 2006 15:21

"George Hibbard" <gh(a)perfectimpact.com> wrote in message
news:kqmah.25149$m9.11267(a)bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message
> news:2Vlah.3483$sf5.489(a)newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
snip
> >
> >
> When videotaping a pupil with a similar drill of this kind, we discovered
in
> replay that the release of the L angle took exactly TWO FRAMES of space:
> that when the hands moved about 3 inches the clubhead moved about 3 feet.
> And this was with various length backswings, such that if the backswing
were
> "to the top," the release would occur too easy and be wasted by the time
the
> hands got to the right pants leg. When the downswing STARTED with the
hands
> no higher than the belt, it was possible to START the release when the
hands
> reached mid body - in front of the pants zipper, and in two frames, about
3
> inches of travel, the clubhead traveled from where the shaft was level
with
> the ground all the way to the ball.
>
> So the problem is not "can I release the club fast enough" at all. It is
I
> HAVE TO STOP TRYING TO GO BACK SO DARN FAR, and I HAVE TO STOP WORRYING
> ABOUT WILL THE CLUBHEAD RELEASE SOON ENOUGH. The exact opposite things
> occur than are expected: the club and arms had better NOT go back so far,
> and if I act to apply any pressure at all ON the shaft to advance the club
> IT RELEASES FAR TOO SOON.
>
> This is for early in one's development. This is not for an advanced or
more
> skilled player who controls his timing better.
>
> When replayed, pupils simply cannot believe what they see in slo mo and
stop
> frame. It is very dramatic, and instructive, to do this.
>
>
Thanks for the comments, George. For me I don't know if the change will be
an "aha moment", a long and tortuous path (this is what my instructor
believes), or a complete failure.

But FWIW I looked at a swing of Chad Campbell vs. me just now. In the frame
where it is obvious that your hands are now below the belt buckle it is
exactly four more frame to get to impact for me and for Chad. However the
lag angle for Chad (angle between his shaft and left forearm) is 83 degrees
while mine is 118.

Of course if I were able to achieve Chad's lag in my swing, I would be
transferring more momentum from my arms to the clubhead and my arms would
slow down more than they do.

But for now I've got the same arm speed as Chad Campbell!! :-)

dave


From: George Hibbard on 26 Nov 2006 16:01

"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message
news:6Hmah.3514$sf5.2229(a)newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "George Hibbard" <gh(a)perfectimpact.com> wrote in message
> news:kqmah.25149$m9.11267(a)bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message
>> news:2Vlah.3483$sf5.489(a)newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> snip
>> >
>> >
>> When videotaping a pupil with a similar drill of this kind, we discovered
> in
>> replay that the release of the L angle took exactly TWO FRAMES of space:
>> that when the hands moved about 3 inches the clubhead moved about 3 feet.
>> And this was with various length backswings, such that if the backswing
> were
>> "to the top," the release would occur too easy and be wasted by the time
> the
>> hands got to the right pants leg. When the downswing STARTED with the
> hands
>> no higher than the belt, it was possible to START the release when the
> hands
>> reached mid body - in front of the pants zipper, and in two frames, about
> 3
>> inches of travel, the clubhead traveled from where the shaft was level
> with
>> the ground all the way to the ball.
>>
>> So the problem is not "can I release the club fast enough" at all. It is
> I
>> HAVE TO STOP TRYING TO GO BACK SO DARN FAR, and I HAVE TO STOP WORRYING
>> ABOUT WILL THE CLUBHEAD RELEASE SOON ENOUGH. The exact opposite things
>> occur than are expected: the club and arms had better NOT go back so far,
>> and if I act to apply any pressure at all ON the shaft to advance the
>> club
>> IT RELEASES FAR TOO SOON.
>>
>> This is for early in one's development. This is not for an advanced or
> more
>> skilled player who controls his timing better.
>>
>> When replayed, pupils simply cannot believe what they see in slo mo and
> stop
>> frame. It is very dramatic, and instructive, to do this.
>>
>>
> Thanks for the comments, George. For me I don't know if the change will be
> an "aha moment", a long and tortuous path (this is what my instructor
> believes), or a complete failure.
>
> But FWIW I looked at a swing of Chad Campbell vs. me just now. In the
> frame
> where it is obvious that your hands are now below the belt buckle it is
> exactly four more frame to get to impact for me and for Chad. However the
> lag angle for Chad (angle between his shaft and left forearm) is 83
> degrees
> while mine is 118.
>
> Of course if I were able to achieve Chad's lag in my swing, I would be
> transferring more momentum from my arms to the clubhead and my arms would
> slow down more than they do.
>
> But for now I've got the same arm speed as Chad Campbell!! :-)
>
> dave
>
>

Dave, as I said and didn't fully complete, the subconscious ACTS AGAINST OUR
KNOWLEDGE to advance the SHAFT. Which causes the release to start too
early. You have to move your hands in such a way that if the clubshaft were
elastic, you'd STRETCH it. ANY other force applied does dissipate the lag
angle IMMEDIATELY. Chad has simply learned NOT to do something leveragewise
to the shaft. As you say your arms move about the same speed. So it isn't
that you can't do what he does: it is that the demon inside is resisting --
and the demon is ALWAYS because of a misperception, an unconscious belief
that is based on a wrong premise. You HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR IMAGE, and the
drill is the only way the instructor has to be able to LEARN YOU. Which of
course he can't do: he can show you but you LEARN yourself. ANd that by
empirical evidence that you can't deny.

Another take on this is to NOT USE your right hand at all during this drill
for about 6 months. No, I take that back: use it TO HOLD THE SHAFT ABOUT
HALF WAY DOWN to KEEP it from advancing so that you DO bring the entire L
shape assembly to where your left hand is IN FRONT OF YOUR ZIPPER before you
release your right hand. When your left hand IS there the club will then be
parallel to the ground. THAT is when you let go with the right hand and
watch the immediacy of the release.

Research Paul Bertholy


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