From: BAR on
In article <nhoch5t1rkgs41svt0ubfk4na49p8likkh(a)4ax.com>,
howard(a)brazee.net says...
>
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:00:12 -0500, Jack Hollis <xsleeper(a)aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Those seniors, rich or poor, have been paying into SS for their entire
> >working lives and for Medicare since 1964. They deserve their
> >benefits. I think that both SS and Medicare are bad programs, but
> >they are not welfare.
>
> We have been taxed to pay for others. And others will be taxed to
> pay for us. I benefit (my wife, mother, mother-in-law, and nephew
> get social security - I'll hold off a while).
>
> But "welfare" is an emotion laden word - it's what those other guys
> get, the ones who maybe never paid taxes (at least in my mind).

What do you call it when you get more than you give? Is it a bonus?
From: Dinosaur_Sr on
On Dec 1, 9:00 pm, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 09:07:22 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr
>
> <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> >However, it is fair game to ask why
> >struggling 30 year olds with 2 kids have to fork out $200.00 plus per
> >month to support much wealthier seniors...not to mention why we can't
> >give more to seniors in real distress. It is absolutely unjust, unfair
> >and untenable economically.
>
> Those seniors, rich or poor, have been paying into SS for their entire
> working lives and for Medicare since 1964.  They deserve their
> benefits.  I think that both SS and Medicare are bad programs, but
> they are not welfare.

That's all fine and good, but govt's of the past took and spent that
money on other things and left it for others to pay off the SS and
medicare...and the cold hard fact is that there isn't, in absolute
terms, enough money to pay off medicare and SS obligations.

The program is a total dog because govts cannot be trusted with the
money. The program robs the poor to pay the rich. It's regressive and
out of date; not to mention absolutely untenable economically.

One wonder just what is so bad with simply helping out people who need
the help? Beats subsidizing golf resort lifestyle for seniors while
young working people have zero chance to build a life for
themselves....and they have the option of simply not going to work, ie
a general strike of some sort, which leaves the govt zero SS and
medicare to collect, and thus have zero to pay out.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on
On Dec 2, 7:12 am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote:
> In article <nhoch5t1rkgs41svt0ubfk4na49p8li...(a)4ax.com>,
> how...(a)brazee.net says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:00:12 -0500, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Those seniors, rich or poor, have been paying into SS for their entire
> > >working lives and for Medicare since 1964.  They deserve their
> > >benefits.  I think that both SS and Medicare are bad programs, but
> > >they are not welfare.
>
> > We have been taxed to pay for others.   And others will be taxed to
> > pay for us.    I benefit (my wife, mother, mother-in-law, and nephew
> > get social security - I'll hold off a while).  
>
> > But "welfare" is an emotion laden word - it's what those other guys
> > get, the ones who maybe never paid taxes (at least in my mind).
>
> What do you call it when you get more than you give? Is it a bonus?

If you earn it, it's payment for services rendered. If the govt takes
it from another person, it's little more than theft.
From: Jack Hollis on
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:12:43 -0500, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote:

>In article <nhoch5t1rkgs41svt0ubfk4na49p8likkh(a)4ax.com>,
>howard(a)brazee.net says...
>>
>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:00:12 -0500, Jack Hollis <xsleeper(a)aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Those seniors, rich or poor, have been paying into SS for their entire
>> >working lives and for Medicare since 1964. They deserve their
>> >benefits. I think that both SS and Medicare are bad programs, but
>> >they are not welfare.
>>
>> We have been taxed to pay for others. And others will be taxed to
>> pay for us. I benefit (my wife, mother, mother-in-law, and nephew
>> get social security - I'll hold off a while).
>>
>> But "welfare" is an emotion laden word - it's what those other guys
>> get, the ones who maybe never paid taxes (at least in my mind).
>
>What do you call it when you get more than you give? Is it a bonus?

SS retirement benefits is basically a governemnt run annuity that you
pay into all your working life and then get a return. Like any
annuity, if you live a long life, you get a higher return than if you
die young.

Medicare is health insurance where you have to pay the premiums in
advance.

Medicaid is a welfare program.
From: Moderate on

"Jack Hollis" <xsleeper(a)aol.com> wrote in message
news:31ndh5tdpuia10ofld0s7lohbv8i9u2dm4(a)4ax.com...
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:12:43 -0500, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <nhoch5t1rkgs41svt0ubfk4na49p8likkh(a)4ax.com>,
>>howard(a)brazee.net says...
>>>
>>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:00:12 -0500, Jack Hollis <xsleeper(a)aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Those seniors, rich or poor, have been paying into SS for their entire
>>> >working lives and for Medicare since 1964. They deserve their
>>> >benefits. I think that both SS and Medicare are bad programs, but
>>> >they are not welfare.
>>>
>>> We have been taxed to pay for others. And others will be taxed to
>>> pay for us. I benefit (my wife, mother, mother-in-law, and nephew
>>> get social security - I'll hold off a while).
>>>
>>> But "welfare" is an emotion laden word - it's what those other guys
>>> get, the ones who maybe never paid taxes (at least in my mind).
>>
>>What do you call it when you get more than you give? Is it a bonus?
>
> SS retirement benefits is basically a governemnt run annuity that you
> pay into all your working life and then get a return. Like any
> annuity, if you live a long life, you get a higher return than if you
> die young.
>
> Medicare is health insurance where you have to pay the premiums in
> advance.
>
> Medicaid is a welfare program.

Except that my children cannot inherit my SS retirement benefits!!!

If I don't make it to retirement everything I paid in stays in the pool. If
my SS tax went into an annuity I could pass that to my children.