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From: Dinosaur_Sr on 2 Dec 2009 17:08 On Dec 2, 3:36 pm, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:12:43 -0500, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > >In article <nhoch5t1rkgs41svt0ubfk4na49p8li...(a)4ax.com>, > >how...(a)brazee.net says... > > >> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:00:12 -0500, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> > >> wrote: > > >> >Those seniors, rich or poor, have been paying into SS for their entire > >> >working lives and for Medicare since 1964. They deserve their > >> >benefits. I think that both SS and Medicare are bad programs, but > >> >they are not welfare. > > >> We have been taxed to pay for others. And others will be taxed to > >> pay for us. I benefit (my wife, mother, mother-in-law, and nephew > >> get social security - I'll hold off a while). > > >> But "welfare" is an emotion laden word - it's what those other guys > >> get, the ones who maybe never paid taxes (at least in my mind). > > >What do you call it when you get more than you give? Is it a bonus? > > SS retirement benefits is basically a governemnt run annuity that you > pay into all your working life and then get a return. Like any > annuity, if you live a long life, you get a higher return than if you > die young. > > Medicare is health insurance where you have to pay the premiums in > advance. > > Medicaid is a welfare program. Maybe, but the trustee of the funds blew them all on other things, and they have no money. When they take money from other taxpayers to pay you, it's welfare. What scam they used to set up the program in the first place notwithstanding.
From: Howard Brazee on 2 Dec 2009 19:09 On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:12:43 -0500, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: >> We have been taxed to pay for others. And others will be taxed to >> pay for us. I benefit (my wife, mother, mother-in-law, and nephew >> get social security - I'll hold off a while). >> >> But "welfare" is an emotion laden word - it's what those other guys >> get, the ones who maybe never paid taxes (at least in my mind). > >What do you call it when you get more than you give? Is it a bonus? I think you missed my sarcasm. "Those other guys" is a term that I thought would make it clear. I don't have a term that encompasses it all. The best thing that I have received in excess of what I have done to deserve is my family. If I live long enough, I will get back more than I paid for Social Security Insurance. But in reality, I didn't pay for me, I paid for previous generations. It will be workers who will be paying for me. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison
From: Howard Brazee on 2 Dec 2009 19:11 On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:39:28 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: >If you earn it, it's payment for services rendered. If the govt takes >it from another person, it's little more than theft. It's nice to pretend that what we get from Social Security Insurance is the money we earned, but in fact, the government takes it from some other person. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison
From: Jack Hollis on 2 Dec 2009 20:07 On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:38:28 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: >> Those seniors, rich or poor, have been paying into SS for their entire >> working lives and for Medicare since 1964. =A0They deserve their >> benefits. =A0I think that both SS and Medicare are bad programs, but >> they are not welfare. > >That's all fine and good, but govt's of the past took and spent that >money on other things and left it for others to pay off the SS and >medicare...and the cold hard fact is that there isn't, in absolute >terms, enough money to pay off medicare and SS obligations. > >The program is a total dog because govts cannot be trusted with the >money. The program robs the poor to pay the rich. It's regressive and >out of date; not to mention absolutely untenable economically. > >One wonder just what is so bad with simply helping out people who need >the help? Beats subsidizing golf resort lifestyle for seniors while >young working people have zero chance to build a life for >themselves....and they have the option of simply not going to work, ie >a general strike of some sort, which leaves the govt zero SS and >medicare to collect, and thus have zero to pay out. The fact that the government decided to spend all the SS and Medicare Trust Fund money does not mean that the people who paid into the system are any less deserving of their benefits. And, in addition, the fact that you're rich also doesn't mean that you don't deserve your benefits. If the government starts means testing SS and Medicare then it will become a welfare program.
From: Jack Hollis on 2 Dec 2009 20:34
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:54:39 -0600, "Moderate" <no_spam_(a)no_mail.com> wrote: >> SS retirement benefits is basically a governemnt run annuity that you >> pay into all your working life and then get a return. Like any >> annuity, if you live a long life, you get a higher return than if you >> die young. >> >> Medicare is health insurance where you have to pay the premiums in >> advance. >> >> Medicaid is a welfare program. > >Except that my children cannot inherit my SS retirement benefits!!! > >If I don't make it to retirement everything I paid in stays in the pool. If >my SS tax went into an annuity I could pass that to my children. You are correctly making the point that SS is an annuity with very bad terms. |