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From: John van der Pflum on 22 Dec 2009 21:17
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:49:47 -0500, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:

>
>
>"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>news:5og2j5d2t9a241d9s58mr4n9ud5vgq0861(a)4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:19:22 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>>>news:0i92j5ljjcm80f521rimk1b6l5n2m78eur(a)4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:12:52 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>>>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> SNIP
>>>>
>>>> Dave -- in regards to your points above:
>>>>
>>>> 1: I haven't seen cases where the GPS has been off substantially.
>>>> Granted I haven't had the luxury of having a laser and another GPS to
>>>> cross reference for accuracy.
>>>>
>>>> 2. At courses I frequent there are a fair number of hidden hazards.
>>>> Or, more likely, I am having to punch out or lay up and I need to know
>>>> how far it is to run out of fairway, etc.
>>>>
>>>> 3. For me distance to the pin doesn't really matter as much. I'm a
>>>> 12.7 so knowing that pin is 148 or 145 won't affect my shot. For
>>>> distances inside 100 yards I have a couple of "stock yardages" -- 105,
>>>> 75, and 60. Other than that everything is feel based on the look of
>>>> the shot and the club I want.
>>>>
>>>> The thing I love about the GPS is that I can glance at it to find the
>>>> distance to the front, middle, and back of the green. That is really
>>>> all the information I need to pull a club.
>>>> --
>>>SNIP
>>>
>>>John, one last comment. There really are two ways to approach intermediate
>>>wedge shots and they are 'touch/feel' vs. 'what is the distance'. I would
>>>rather know the exact distance (say 48 yards) to a totally blind target
>>>(assuming that I do have the line) vs. having no distance info at all to a
>>>target that I can fully see.
>>
>> If you had a laser how would you know you had 48 yards to a totally
>> blind target? :-p.
>> --
>
>You wouldn't know. Just like if you had 48 yards to a visible target with a
>GPS (you also wouldn't know). Laser vs. GPS - they solve different problems
>(at different levels of accuracy).

Touche. :-)

So are you coming to RSG Cincinnati X next year or what?
--
jvdp
Hey Annika, you'll never hold these:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockpyle/3940732311/

http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
From: John van der Pflum on 22 Dec 2009 21:22
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:16:59 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1234(a)gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Dec 23, 9:11�am, John van der Pflum <nowhammymyspa...(a)bite.org>
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:16:47 -0800 (PST), JohnO <johno1...(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The most common situation encountered where the GPS wins is where you
>> >have an obstruction such as trees between you and the shot target.
>>
>> Which seems to happen to me a lot.
>
>Heh! Me too, until the trees grew higher and I got older and now I hit
>into them rather than over them.
>�
>>
>> >I used a GPS for a few years, then got the Pinseeker. I wouldn't go
>> >back for all the ProV1's in Massachusetts.
>>
>> I thought you lived in OZ? �
>
>WHAT?
>
>I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, Mr Pflum, that you
>inadvertently made a typo and meant 'NZ' not 'OZ', as I am sure you
>would not be making the unspeakably grievous insult of calling me an
>Australian!

Oh, of course, it was a totally typo. I would never associate the
fine citizens of NZ with the sheep shaggers of Australia. I mean,
those people are just plain crazy. Kind of like Canadians. :-)
--
jvdp
Hey Annika, you'll never hold these:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockpyle/3940732311/

http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
From: Dave Lee on 22 Dec 2009 21:27


"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
news:vav2j5lue3hlm369dh7e9qa1jtbh3qek1m(a)4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:49:47 -0500, "Dave Lee"
> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>>news:5og2j5d2t9a241d9s58mr4n9ud5vgq0861(a)4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:19:22 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>>>>news:0i92j5ljjcm80f521rimk1b6l5n2m78eur(a)4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:12:52 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>>>>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> SNIP
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave -- in regards to your points above:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1: I haven't seen cases where the GPS has been off substantially.
>>>>> Granted I haven't had the luxury of having a laser and another GPS to
>>>>> cross reference for accuracy.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. At courses I frequent there are a fair number of hidden hazards.
>>>>> Or, more likely, I am having to punch out or lay up and I need to know
>>>>> how far it is to run out of fairway, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. For me distance to the pin doesn't really matter as much. I'm a
>>>>> 12.7 so knowing that pin is 148 or 145 won't affect my shot. For
>>>>> distances inside 100 yards I have a couple of "stock yardages" -- 105,
>>>>> 75, and 60. Other than that everything is feel based on the look of
>>>>> the shot and the club I want.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing I love about the GPS is that I can glance at it to find the
>>>>> distance to the front, middle, and back of the green. That is really
>>>>> all the information I need to pull a club.
>>>>> --
>>>>SNIP
>>>>
>>>>John, one last comment. There really are two ways to approach
>>>>intermediate
>>>>wedge shots and they are 'touch/feel' vs. 'what is the distance'. I
>>>>would
>>>>rather know the exact distance (say 48 yards) to a totally blind target
>>>>(assuming that I do have the line) vs. having no distance info at all to
>>>>a
>>>>target that I can fully see.
>>>
>>> If you had a laser how would you know you had 48 yards to a totally
>>> blind target? :-p.
>>> --
>>
>>You wouldn't know. Just like if you had 48 yards to a visible target with
>>a
>>GPS (you also wouldn't know). Laser vs. GPS - they solve different
>>problems
>>(at different levels of accuracy).
>
> Touche. :-)
>
> So are you coming to RSG Cincinnati X next year or what?
> --
> jvdp
>

Probably not. But OTOH, I keep wondering if that is a wrong decision. From
what I have observed you do an outstanding job in running this event. And I
lived in Lexington for 25 years so have some friends that I could visit as
part of the deal.

But that has been true for many years and I have yet to show up :-(

dave

From: Dave Lee on 22 Dec 2009 21:32


"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
news:rdv2j51juee6m556k20gfkh9htagov6hu3(a)4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:57:39 -0500, "Dave Lee"
> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message
>>news:lsKdnXplNp2o6qzWnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> "John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>>> news:5og2j5d2t9a241d9s58mr4n9ud5vgq0861(a)4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:19:22 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>>>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>>>>>news:0i92j5ljjcm80f521rimk1b6l5n2m78eur(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:12:52 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>>>>>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SNIP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave -- in regards to your points above:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1: I haven't seen cases where the GPS has been off substantially.
>>>>>> Granted I haven't had the luxury of having a laser and another GPS to
>>>>>> cross reference for accuracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. At courses I frequent there are a fair number of hidden hazards.
>>>>>> Or, more likely, I am having to punch out or lay up and I need to
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> how far it is to run out of fairway, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. For me distance to the pin doesn't really matter as much. I'm a
>>>>>> 12.7 so knowing that pin is 148 or 145 won't affect my shot. For
>>>>>> distances inside 100 yards I have a couple of "stock yardages" --
>>>>>> 105,
>>>>>> 75, and 60. Other than that everything is feel based on the look of
>>>>>> the shot and the club I want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing I love about the GPS is that I can glance at it to find the
>>>>>> distance to the front, middle, and back of the green. That is really
>>>>>> all the information I need to pull a club.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>SNIP
>>>>>
>>>>>John, one last comment. There really are two ways to approach
>>>>>intermediate
>>>>>wedge shots and they are 'touch/feel' vs. 'what is the distance'. I
>>>>>would
>>>>>rather know the exact distance (say 48 yards) to a totally blind target
>>>>>(assuming that I do have the line) vs. having no distance info at all
>>>>>to
>>>>>a
>>>>>target that I can fully see.
>>>>
>>>> If you had a laser how would you know you had 48 yards to a totally
>>>> blind target? :-p.
>>>> --
>>>
>>> You wouldn't know. Just like if you had 48 yards to a visible target
>>> with
>>> a GPS (you also wouldn't know). Laser vs. GPS - they solve different
>>> problems (at different levels of accuracy).
>>>
>>> dave
>>
>>FWIW, I think that I can say with a reasonable assurance of being correct
>>that I have NEVER/EVER encountered a totally blind shot from inside 100
>>yards. Maybe I am wrong here, but I don't think so.
>>
>>dave
>
> I've played on some courses where the green is severely uphill and
> thus those shots have been blind.
> --


Hmmm, it seems to me that (in that case) you are pretty much compelled to
walk up to where you can see the flag (to find the correct line). Take a
laser from that point and count your steps from there back to the ball.

I'd accuse you of being a "typical midwest dummy" except for the fact that I
am also a midwest guy. So I will chose to not make that particular
accusation :-)

dave

From: John van der Pflum on 23 Dec 2009 08:37
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:32:40 -0500, "Dave Lee"
<DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:

>
>
>"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>news:rdv2j51juee6m556k20gfkh9htagov6hu3(a)4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:57:39 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message
>>>news:lsKdnXplNp2o6qzWnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:5og2j5d2t9a241d9s58mr4n9ud5vgq0861(a)4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:19:22 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>>>>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"John van der Pflum" <nowhammymyspammy(a)bite.org> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:0i92j5ljjcm80f521rimk1b6l5n2m78eur(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:12:52 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>>>>>>> <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SNIP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave -- in regards to your points above:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1: I haven't seen cases where the GPS has been off substantially.
>>>>>>> Granted I haven't had the luxury of having a laser and another GPS to
>>>>>>> cross reference for accuracy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. At courses I frequent there are a fair number of hidden hazards.
>>>>>>> Or, more likely, I am having to punch out or lay up and I need to
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> how far it is to run out of fairway, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. For me distance to the pin doesn't really matter as much. I'm a
>>>>>>> 12.7 so knowing that pin is 148 or 145 won't affect my shot. For
>>>>>>> distances inside 100 yards I have a couple of "stock yardages" --
>>>>>>> 105,
>>>>>>> 75, and 60. Other than that everything is feel based on the look of
>>>>>>> the shot and the club I want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thing I love about the GPS is that I can glance at it to find the
>>>>>>> distance to the front, middle, and back of the green. That is really
>>>>>>> all the information I need to pull a club.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>SNIP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John, one last comment. There really are two ways to approach
>>>>>>intermediate
>>>>>>wedge shots and they are 'touch/feel' vs. 'what is the distance'. I
>>>>>>would
>>>>>>rather know the exact distance (say 48 yards) to a totally blind target
>>>>>>(assuming that I do have the line) vs. having no distance info at all
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>target that I can fully see.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you had a laser how would you know you had 48 yards to a totally
>>>>> blind target? :-p.
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> You wouldn't know. Just like if you had 48 yards to a visible target
>>>> with
>>>> a GPS (you also wouldn't know). Laser vs. GPS - they solve different
>>>> problems (at different levels of accuracy).
>>>>
>>>> dave
>>>
>>>FWIW, I think that I can say with a reasonable assurance of being correct
>>>that I have NEVER/EVER encountered a totally blind shot from inside 100
>>>yards. Maybe I am wrong here, but I don't think so.
>>>
>>>dave
>>
>> I've played on some courses where the green is severely uphill and
>> thus those shots have been blind.
>> --
>
>
>Hmmm, it seems to me that (in that case) you are pretty much compelled to
>walk up to where you can see the flag (to find the correct line). Take a
>laser from that point and count your steps from there back to the ball.

This is another reason I prefer the GPS -- time. The amount of time
it takes to get yardages is much shorter. Walking up to the ball,
putting down your bag, pulling on your glove and with a quick glance
you know your yardage. Compared to the laser I suspect that saves a
lot of time.

Dave -- a quick question for you. Does a 5 yard difference really
matter to you? If you know the center of the green is 107 yards does
it matter if you laser the pin to read 104?

>I'd accuse you of being a "typical midwest dummy" except for the fact that I
>am also a midwest guy. So I will chose to not make that particular
>accusation :-)

I'm still a bit confused how Ohio is the midwest. Granted, it is the
farthest east state in the Midwest so we are kind of in no-man's land.
--
jvdp
Hey Annika, you'll never hold these:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockpyle/3940732311/

http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
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