Shaft Stiffness and Irons
in [Golf]
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From: Martin Levac on 5 Feb 2007 18:33 "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message news:g%Ixh.24677$X72.15506(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > I'm toying with the idea of building a new set of irons in the near > future. > At the rate that I typically proceed on such things that would mean > calendar > 2007 :-) > > An accepted "golf truism" that I have heard more than once is (roughly) > "the > right flex shaft is the most flex that you can control" (where stiffer > means > less flex). Particularly with irons I wonder why it really shouldn't be > "the > stiffest flex that you can tolerate swinging". > > I know that I seriously dislike driver shafts with stiff tips. I honestly > don't know if they hit the ball worse for me (or hell - maybe they are > better). But I don't like the feel at impact. > > I don't seem to have that reaction to stiffer iron shafts. And I just > don't > see any upside to more flex other than how it feels. The downsides are > more > clubhead droop that will vary depending on how hard you swing the club and > similar considerations for the other directions of shaft flex. The "droop > thing" in particular seems to be a real negative to me as it means that if > the lie is right on a full swing then it will almost have to be too > upright > for a chip shot. > > Any comments on this? I recall some discussion on this a while back, but I > recall that it seemed to go off in other directions. Well, of course it > did > Dave - this is RSG :-) > > dave > > Dave, I'll make a direct reply just to stay on the subject. If you don't see an upside to supple shafts, don't use them and stick to rigid shafts. You know better than anybody what suits you so trust yourself to choose what's best for you. If you want my opinion on the matter well I think you know what it is by now. Anyway, I prefer to think that a more rigid shaft will allow me to be more accurate than a more supple shaft. What is strange is that you prefer a supple shaft in the driver and rigid shaft in the irons. Maybe you're doing something different? Maybe you don't like the feel at impact because you're not so accurate with the driver so you frequently strike the ball away from the center of the clubface? Have you tried a tiny driver head combined with the same shaft? That would give you a good idea of the accuracy you are capable of with that length of shaft. Getting back to the lever principle. A bigger head has the potential to twist the clubhead harder than a smaller head simply because the lever is longer. Combine this to a longer shaft and you might find your answer therein. Martin Levac
From: Dave Lee on 5 Feb 2007 20:14 "Martin Levac" <vac3(a)REMOVEvideotron.ca> wrote in message news:l8Pxh.37218$vT5.927598(a)wagner.videotron.net... > > "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message > news:g%Ixh.24677$X72.15506(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > I'm toying with the idea of building a new set of irons in the near > > future. > > At the rate that I typically proceed on such things that would mean > > calendar > > 2007 :-) > > > > An accepted "golf truism" that I have heard more than once is (roughly) > > "the > > right flex shaft is the most flex that you can control" (where stiffer > > means > > less flex). Particularly with irons I wonder why it really shouldn't be > > "the > > stiffest flex that you can tolerate swinging". > > > > I know that I seriously dislike driver shafts with stiff tips. I honestly > > don't know if they hit the ball worse for me (or hell - maybe they are > > better). But I don't like the feel at impact. > > > > I don't seem to have that reaction to stiffer iron shafts. And I just > > don't > > see any upside to more flex other than how it feels. The downsides are > > more > > clubhead droop that will vary depending on how hard you swing the club and > > similar considerations for the other directions of shaft flex. The "droop > > thing" in particular seems to be a real negative to me as it means that if > > the lie is right on a full swing then it will almost have to be too > > upright > > for a chip shot. > > > > Any comments on this? I recall some discussion on this a while back, but I > > recall that it seemed to go off in other directions. Well, of course it > > did > > Dave - this is RSG :-) > > > > dave > > > > > > Dave, I'll make a direct reply just to stay on the subject. > > If you don't see an upside to supple shafts, don't use them and stick to > rigid shafts. You know better than anybody what suits you so trust yourself > to choose what's best for you. If you want my opinion on the matter well I > think you know what it is by now. Anyway, I prefer to think that a more > rigid shaft will allow me to be more accurate than a more supple shaft. > > What is strange is that you prefer a supple shaft in the driver and rigid > shaft in the irons. Maybe you're doing something different? Maybe you don't > like the feel at impact because you're not so accurate with the driver so > you frequently strike the ball away from the center of the clubface? Have > you tried a tiny driver head combined with the same shaft? That would give > you a good idea of the accuracy you are capable of with that length of > shaft. > > Getting back to the lever principle. A bigger head has the potential to > twist the clubhead harder than a smaller head simply because the lever is > longer. Combine this to a longer shaft and you might find your answer > therein. > > > Martin Levac Haven't stated an iron preference - just asked a question. FWIW I don't really have a preference for flexxier driver shafts, just driver shafts with soft tips. I had a UST ProForce in a driver at 248 cpm butt frequency and it felt really harsh. I replaced with aN SKFiber shaft known to be tip soft and really like it. The butt frequency was 246 cpm which is the same, for all practical purposes, as the UST. I'm really irritated with myself for getting into Hogan irons. They are fine irons but have tapered shafts so are a pain in the butt to experiment with. That's gonna change as I will be doing some experiments (with clubs that I can tip trim). dave
From: Birdie Bill on 5 Feb 2007 20:55 On Feb 5, 10:33 am, "Dave Lee" <DaveLe...(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote: > I'm toying with the idea of building a new set of irons in the near future. > At the rate that I typically proceed on such things that would mean calendar > 2007 :-) > > An accepted "golf truism" that I have heard more than once is (roughly) "the > right flex shaft is the most flex that you can control" (where stiffer means > less flex). Particularly with irons I wonder why it really shouldn't be "the > stiffest flex that you can tolerate swinging". > > I know that I seriously dislike driver shafts with stiff tips. I honestly > don't know if they hit the ball worse for me (or hell - maybe they are > better). But I don't like the feel at impact. > > I don't seem to have that reaction to stiffer iron shafts. And I just don't > see any upside to more flex other than how it feels. The downsides are more > clubhead droop that will vary depending on how hard you swing the club and > similar considerations for the other directions of shaft flex. The "droop > thing" in particular seems to be a real negative to me as it means that if > the lie is right on a full swing then it will almost have to be too upright > for a chip shot. > > Any comments on this? I recall some discussion on this a while back, but I > recall that it seemed to go off in other directions. Well, of course it did > Dave - this is RSG :-) > > dave Jack Nicklaus wrote in one of his books (probably Golf My Way) that for a short time he played with extra stiff shafts that felt like "telephone poles", but he soon gave them up for more flexible shafts. This tells me that there is a limit for everyone, otherwise everyone would be playing XXXS shafts. I think the limit is based largely on swing speed, but the rate of acceleration also plays a role. In my opinion, most amateurs are just kidding themselves when they play stiff shafts. I knew a player with a good swing and quite decent swing speeds (110+ mph) switch from stiff to regular shafts, because he could hit the regular shafts longer, and they just felt better to him. I've heard John Daly uses, or at least at one time used regular shafts. In my opinion, the swing of most amateurs is much less consistent than any variation brought on by the flex of the shaft.
From: Dave Lee on 5 Feb 2007 21:37 "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1170726950.718717.31710(a)a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 5, 10:33 am, "Dave Lee" <DaveLe...(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote: > > Jack Nicklaus wrote in one of his books (probably Golf My Way) > that for a short time he played with extra stiff shafts that felt > like "telephone poles", but he soon gave them up for more > flexible shafts. This tells me that there is a limit for everyone, > otherwise everyone would be playing XXXS shafts. I think the > limit is based largely on swing speed, but the rate of acceleration > also plays a role. In my opinion, most amateurs are just > kidding themselves when they play stiff shafts. > > I knew a player with a good swing and quite decent swing > speeds (110+ mph) switch from stiff to regular shafts, because > he could hit the regular shafts longer, and they just felt better to > him. I've heard John Daly uses, or at least at one time used > regular shafts. > > In my opinion, the swing of most amateurs is much less > consistent than any variation brought on by the flex of the shaft. > Interesting. I have that book and looked through the equipment section. I found two references to "the telephone pole phase of 1962" which Jack said was "best forgotten". He didn't elaborate. Clearly Jack is not an equipment hound. But I found it interesting that Jack makes a very erroneous statement early in that chapter. He is talking about the importance of the correct lie in a golf club and then says ""Since the general tendency is to return the club at impact to where it was at address, most golfers will play best with clubs that sole flat on the ground at address". In my experience the vast majority of golfers have a more vertical shaft at impact vs. address. And that ignores the club droop issue. Kind of surprising to see a him state that a static lie evaluation is good enough. dave
From: Tom K on 5 Feb 2007 22:48
Are you anywhere near a Golfsmith or similar place where you can go on a golf monitor for some swings for free? Golfsmith also has a very good club making course Saturday mornings and afternoons. --Tom "Dave Lee" <DaveLeeNC(a)ix.netcom.RemovE.com> wrote in message news:g%Ixh.24677$X72.15506(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > I'm toying with the idea of building a new set of irons in the near > future. > At the rate that I typically proceed on such things that would mean > calendar > 2007 :-) > > An accepted "golf truism" that I have heard more than once is (roughly) > "the > right flex shaft is the most flex that you can control" (where stiffer > means > less flex). Particularly with irons I wonder why it really shouldn't be > "the > stiffest flex that you can tolerate swinging". > > I know that I seriously dislike driver shafts with stiff tips. I honestly > don't know if they hit the ball worse for me (or hell - maybe they are > better). But I don't like the feel at impact. > > I don't seem to have that reaction to stiffer iron shafts. And I just > don't > see any upside to more flex other than how it feels. The downsides are > more > clubhead droop that will vary depending on how hard you swing the club and > similar considerations for the other directions of shaft flex. The "droop > thing" in particular seems to be a real negative to me as it means that if > the lie is right on a full swing then it will almost have to be too > upright > for a chip shot. > > Any comments on this? I recall some discussion on this a while back, but I > recall that it seemed to go off in other directions. Well, of course it > did > Dave - this is RSG :-) > > dave > > |