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From: William Clark on 24 Feb 2010 11:28 In article <28af1e25-340a-41ee-a226-b65652386ccf(a)g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 24, 8:56�am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > Data is data - and what instruments say is the starting point you cannot > > fudge or deny. There are eight or more independent models based on > > different sets of data, and the funny thing is they all point to exactly > > the same trends. > > > > No they "is" not. That's your Oxford English working again I suppose. > > Where you measure has a profound influence on what you measure. Don't > you know that? So if you measure temperature on the equator you get a different reading from at the South Pole. Gosh, whoever would have thought that? However if you measure in thousands of places, you get a statistically valid data set, complete with region to region variations.
From: William Clark on 24 Feb 2010 11:30 In article <694f1804-8234-4cb0-9f2f-2e54111da23e(a)x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 24, 9:13�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Feb 24, 8:54�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 5:20�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 23, 4:17�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 7:33�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <a3017451-c593-446e-87d9-c9fff7081...(a)e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 4:42�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > In article <3Xxgn.76283$OX4.5...(a)newsfe25.iad>, > > > > > > > > assimil...(a)borg.org > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 22-Feb-2010, William Clark > > > > > > > > > <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The evidence suggests that the effect is significant, and > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > swamping the natural cycle to unprecedented levels. > > > > > > > > > > > the <cough, cough> evidence is being called into question. > > > > > > > > > The "proposed" > > > > > > > > > solutions look worse than the "problem." > > > > > > > > > > No it is not - at least by any one other than the denialists, > > > > > > > > who have a > > > > > > > > financial stake in convincing everyone that the emperor has no > > > > > > > > clothes. > > > > > > > > The fact remains that the quibbles that heave been blown into > > > > > > > > mountains > > > > > > > > are just that - minor quibbles. The main predictions and > > > > > > > > conclusions > > > > > > > > remain, in spite of what a certain hysterical section of the > > > > > > > > media would > > > > > > > > have us believe. > > > > > > > > > What "major prediction" in this area has come to be...and they > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > been making them for 40 years now. Name one that has happened. > > > > > > > > That eight different global warming models indicate the current > > > > > > accelerated global warming? > > > > > > > About your speed I guess. The issue is hysteria. I'll grant the > > > > > global > > > > > warming, and even if so, so what? How about ice caps melting and > > > > > cities flooding? How about accelerated increases in high intensity > > > > > hurricanes and tornadoes? They all never happened.- Hide quoted text > > > > > - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > The polar ice cap IS melting. There HAS been an increase in the > > > > intensity of hurricanes. > > > > > Really? I'll bet you both polar ice caps are still there. What do you > > > base the intensity of storms response on? Last year was pretty quiet. > > > Seems to me there is a high pressure cell sitting over north america > > > during hurricane season that deflects the hurricanes the last few > > > years. If global warming gave us that, all I can say is THANKS!- Hide > > > quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > First of all there's only one polar ice cap. I didn't say it was gone, > > I said it has been melting. It's much smaller than it used to be. > > You and I live on different plants then. There is a north and south > pole. There is "ocean" at the north pole, covered with an ice cap. > There is a continent at the south pole, and it too is covered by an > ice cap. You live on a "plant"? Fern Gully, I suppose? > > Any such ice cap with do one of two things over any stretch of time, > it will either: > > a) grow > > or > > b) shrink > > over any one particular period of time. If it is shrinking, it's > shrinking. That the shrinking correlates with the rise of the > Hollywood movie industry is hardly reason to conclude that Hollywood > movies are causing these ice caps to shrink. And where do you suppose the water from that "shrinking" goes? I'll give you a couple of minutes on this, as you seem to have problems connecting the dots.
From: John B. on 24 Feb 2010 12:16 On Feb 24, 9:58 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 24, 9:13 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 24, 8:54 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Feb 23, 5:20 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 23, 4:17 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 22, 7:33 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <a3017451-c593-446e-87d9-c9fff7081...(a)e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 4:42 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > In article <3Xxgn.76283$OX4.5...(a)newsfe25.iad>, assimil...(a)borg.org > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 22-Feb-2010, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The evidence suggests that the effect is significant, and is > > > > > > > > > > swamping the natural cycle to unprecedented levels. > > > > > > > > > > the <cough, cough> evidence is being called into question.. The "proposed" > > > > > > > > > solutions look worse than the "problem." > > > > > > > > > No it is not - at least by any one other than the denialists, who have a > > > > > > > > financial stake in convincing everyone that the emperor has no clothes. > > > > > > > > The fact remains that the quibbles that heave been blown into mountains > > > > > > > > are just that - minor quibbles. The main predictions and conclusions > > > > > > > > remain, in spite of what a certain hysterical section of the media would > > > > > > > > have us believe. > > > > > > > > What "major prediction" in this area has come to be...and they have > > > > > > > been making them for 40 years now. Name one that has happened.. > > > > > > > That eight different global warming models indicate the current > > > > > > accelerated global warming? > > > > > > About your speed I guess. The issue is hysteria. I'll grant the global > > > > > warming, and even if so, so what? How about ice caps melting and > > > > > cities flooding? How about accelerated increases in high intensity > > > > > hurricanes and tornadoes? They all never happened.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > The polar ice cap IS melting. There HAS been an increase in the > > > > intensity of hurricanes. > > > > Really? I'll bet you both polar ice caps are still there. What do you > > > base the intensity of storms response on? Last year was pretty quiet. > > > Seems to me there is a high pressure cell sitting over north america > > > during hurricane season that deflects the hurricanes the last few > > > years. If global warming gave us that, all I can say is THANKS!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > First of all there's only one polar ice cap. I didn't say it was gone, > > I said it has been melting. It's much smaller than it used to be. > > You and I live on different plants then. There is a north and south > pole. There is "ocean" at the north pole, covered with an ice cap. > There is a continent at the south pole, and it too is covered by an > ice cap. > > Any such ice cap with do one of two things over any stretch of time, > it will either: > > a) grow > > or > > b) shrink > > over any one particular period of time. If it is shrinking, it's > shrinking. That the shrinking correlates with the rise of the > Hollywood movie industry is hardly reason to conclude that Hollywood > movies are causing these ice caps to shrink.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Never before in human history has the polar ice cap shrunk in both thickness and area as much as it has recently. Never has it melted completely in summer, as is expected this century.
From: Carbon on 24 Feb 2010 19:00 On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:42:17 +0000, assimilate wrote: > On 22-Feb-2010, Carbon <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >>> Certainty, not quite, evidence free, hardly. My opinions come from >>> digging into the matter, not just listening to the sound bites on >>> the stele. >> >> Uh huh. Anyway, I have posted stats about average life expectancy and >> total cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP. You apparently find >> the numbers inconvenient. > > no I find them superficial. You have grasped on to 2 straws to make > your case and you cling to them fervently. It is you that doesn't want > to hear why your stats don't mean much. You know what's superficial? Saying over and over again that something is superficial and never once saying why.
From: BAR on 24 Feb 2010 19:31
In article <clark-436614.08564524022010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > Jones and Mann know all of the answers, just ask them. > > > > The climate issue went from research to political and it wasn't the > > politicians who turned it political it was the "scientists" who made it > > political. Once it became political the politicians seized the climate > > issue and did what politicians do and figured out how to tax it. > > Made political by those who opposed it on grounds of perceived cost to > them. Your inability to read and comprehend is amazing. > > > > The whole climate issue is political regardless of what you say, what > > the politicians say and what the "scientists" say. The UK MET's office > > offer to have a do-over but still hanging onto the old data is a bit > > funny. It is akin to we didn't screw up but, we will do it over again. > > The biggest problem the UK MET office has now is that they want to use > > UEA's CRU to perform the do over. > > Data is data - and what instruments say is the starting point you cannot > fudge or deny. There are eight or more independent models based on > different sets of data, and the funny thing is they all point to exactly > the same trends. The location of the data gathering stations is extremely important. Maybe they all did Mann's trick with the data? > > > > UPenn and UEA's CRU should shutdown their climate research organizations > > for the good of science. The work product from both organizations will > > always be looked upon as having being manipulated, this will go on far > > into the future. Reputation is important and these two organizations > > have completely and totally lost their academic, scientific and public > > reputations. > > You know absolute zero about science. You don't even know that Mann is > at Penn State, not UPenn, for God's sake. You accuse others of making > this a political issue, and thn you adopt a position based solely on > politics. Where I come from, that is called hypocrisy. Give it upa nd > move on - you are making an idiot of yourself with this. > Good UPenn is an Ivy league school. Penn State is just another school. The scientists who put together the latest IPCC report admitted that the inserted items for purely political reasons. Billy it would do you good to take a step back and review all of the reports since the data was released, regardless of how, from UEA. Be sure to think about whether you are blindly supporting the scientists or whether you are supporting them based upon them using sound scientific processes and ethics. It doesn't take a scientist to figure out if someone is not following process and procedure and if they are conducting themselves ethically. |