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From: Alan Baker on 28 Apr 2010 15:40 In article <83rh33FhrnU1(a)mid.individual.net>, "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > news:98161d23-4033-4f17-b463-6b49fdd38cea(a)q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 28, 5:53 am, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > "Alan Baker" <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > > > news:alangbaker-CA12CD.01203628042010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > > > In article > > > > > > Maybe you should read my post before you respond. One thing for sure. > > > > I can't talk to someone who doesn't understand what I say. For > > > > example, I never said water quality had anything to do with malaria. > > > > Either you are a sack of hammers or a troll. > > > > Speaking of a troll, read the following..... > > > > > You said (and I quote): > > > > > "if the money wasted on DDT were spent on water quality, hundreds of > > > millions would not get malaria" > > > > > How can that be interpreted in any other way but that you said that > > > water quality *does* have something to do with malaria? > > > > > -- > > > Uncle Al, the kiddy's pal > > > Vancouver, British Columbia > > > > -Greg > > I generally don't read Baker. He is one of those people who absolutely > refuses to understand what people are saying in their posts. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Good decision. I'm glad you don't take his bait. If only KP would do the > same, Uncle Al would be forced to go elsewhere to play his kiddy games. > > -Greg Greg chiming in like a true hypocrite! -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 28 Apr 2010 15:47 On Apr 28, 2:53 pm, Billy <wildbi...(a)withouta.net> wrote: wrote: snippitall If you read UN propaganda, the idea is for the ban to be universal. That's what they really want. As for the effectiveness of chemical agriculture, you would have to go back to the studies of the 1940's and 1950's and look at Norman Borlaug and his work, it's rationale and how well it did in fact work. One can spin the issues after the fact, but the fact remains that prior to the green revolution many parts of the world could not feed themselves, and now they can, because of chemical agriculture. As for our culture, the rationale is simply that you get higher yields with the chemicals, and that more than offsets to costs. Grow food to feed to bugs or grow it to feed to people. Again, you would have to go back to the mid 20th century and look at agriculture literature for that time. Resistance comes from overuse. The solution is simply, you use a variety of pesticides over time. When resistance to one emerges, you switch to another. If you are co-ordinated in your use you can deal with the issue. We take the time to deal with the problem and use the chemicals, with cotton, but not malaria. The only reason for this, and this is a fact to me, is that we value cotton far more than the lives of people in regions infested with malaria. We probably use DDT so much because it is relatively begin, and it was discovered early on. We could use other chemicals just as easy I suppose. As for chemical use in general, I can't see free farmers using chemicals without reason. If they could get the yields without the chemicals, they would do it; as evidenced by the popularity of GMOs that reduce chemical use. I personally do not doubt that if we stopped using chemicals we would have to spend a lot more of our time and wealth on agriculture. Get more urban deadbeats out of their mom's basement and out in the field harvesting crops. A Khmer Rouge like society I suppose. We live how we live at the end of the day. Cheap food gives us extra wealth to support more and more people doing nothing and being fed, clothed and housed; even get health insurance! Make food more expensive, and we have less to waste on deadbeats. No real problem for me, but others might not like it so much if food prices started going up! Other than direct sources, like say a government bill or UN resolution that you can get online, I don't put too much stock in online sources for complex highly politicized issues like this. More spin than fact, and I don't buy politics in general. FWIW, I'm fairly "conservative" on fiscal issues and considered very "liberal" on social issues. In my experience, liberal sycophants are more aggressive in tearing me down for my views than conservatives, even though I almost totally reject the conservative social agenda.
From: dene on 28 Apr 2010 17:06 "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message news:alangbaker-13CEFA.12401028042010(a)news.shawcable.com... > In article <83rh33FhrnU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > > news:98161d23-4033-4f17-b463-6b49fdd38cea(a)q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > > On Apr 28, 5:53 am, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > "Alan Baker" <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > > > > > news:alangbaker-CA12CD.01203628042010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > Maybe you should read my post before you respond. One thing for sure. > > > > > I can't talk to someone who doesn't understand what I say. For > > > > > example, I never said water quality had anything to do with malaria. > > > > > Either you are a sack of hammers or a troll. > > > > > > Speaking of a troll, read the following..... > > > > > > > You said (and I quote): > > > > > > > "if the money wasted on DDT were spent on water quality, hundreds of > > > > millions would not get malaria" > > > > > > > How can that be interpreted in any other way but that you said that > > > > water quality *does* have something to do with malaria? > > > > > > > -- > > > > Uncle Al, the kiddy's pal > > > > Vancouver, British Columbia > > > > > > -Greg > > > > I generally don't read Baker. He is one of those people who absolutely > > refuses to understand what people are saying in their posts. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Good decision. I'm glad you don't take his bait. If only KP would do the > > same, Uncle Al would be forced to go elsewhere to play his kiddy games. > > > > -Greg > > Greg chiming in like a true hypocrite! Glad my post annoys you. Perhaps you should post some private e-mail to make yourself feel better. You need the attention. -Greg
From: Alan Baker on 28 Apr 2010 17:09 In article <83rm3iFgq1U1(a)mid.individual.net>, "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > "Alan Baker" <alangbaker(a)telus.net> wrote in message > news:alangbaker-13CEFA.12401028042010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > In article <83rh33FhrnU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > "dene" <dene(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > > > > news:98161d23-4033-4f17-b463-6b49fdd38cea(a)q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > > > On Apr 28, 5:53 am, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > "Alan Baker" <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:alangbaker-CA12CD.01203628042010(a)news.shawcable.com... > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you should read my post before you respond. One thing for > sure. > > > > > > I can't talk to someone who doesn't understand what I say. For > > > > > > example, I never said water quality had anything to do with > malaria. > > > > > > Either you are a sack of hammers or a troll. > > > > > > > > Speaking of a troll, read the following..... > > > > > > > > > You said (and I quote): > > > > > > > > > "if the money wasted on DDT were spent on water quality, hundreds of > > > > > millions would not get malaria" > > > > > > > > > How can that be interpreted in any other way but that you said that > > > > > water quality *does* have something to do with malaria? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Uncle Al, the kiddy's pal > > > > > Vancouver, British Columbia > > > > > > > > -Greg > > > > > > I generally don't read Baker. He is one of those people who absolutely > > > refuses to understand what people are saying in their posts. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Good decision. I'm glad you don't take his bait. If only KP would do > the > > > same, Uncle Al would be forced to go elsewhere to play his kiddy games. > > > > > > -Greg > > > > Greg chiming in like a true hypocrite! > > Glad my post annoys you. Perhaps you should post some private e-mail to > make yourself feel better. You need the attention. > > -Greg LOL -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Billy on 28 Apr 2010 17:43
In article <38785119-fcc1-4662-8ded-b2227cb24bf2(a)d19g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Apr 28, 2:53�pm, Billy <wildbi...(a)withouta.net> wrote: > wrote: > > > snippitall > > If you read UN propaganda, the idea is for the ban to be universal. > That's what they really want. > > As for the effectiveness of chemical agriculture, you would have to go > back to the studies of the 1940's and 1950's and look at Norman > Borlaug and his work, it's rationale and how well it did in fact work. > One can spin the issues after the fact, but the fact remains that > prior to the green revolution many parts of the world could not feed > themselves, and now they can, because of chemical agriculture. > > As for our culture, the rationale is simply that you get higher yields > with the chemicals, and that more than offsets to costs. Grow food to > feed to bugs or grow it to feed to people. Again, you would have to go > back to the mid 20th century and look at agriculture literature for > that time. > > Resistance comes from overuse. The solution is simply, you use a > variety of pesticides over time. When resistance to one emerges, you > switch to another. If you are co-ordinated in your use you can deal > with the issue. We take the time to deal with the problem and use the > chemicals, with cotton, but not malaria. The only reason for this, and > this is a fact to me, is that we value cotton far more than the lives > of people in regions infested with malaria. > > We probably use DDT so much because it is relatively begin, and it was > discovered early on. We could use other chemicals just as easy I > suppose. As for chemical use in general, I can't see free farmers > using chemicals without reason. If they could get the yields without > the chemicals, they would do it; as evidenced by the popularity of > GMOs that reduce chemical use. > > I personally do not doubt that if we stopped using chemicals we would > have to spend a lot more of our time and wealth on agriculture. Get > more urban deadbeats out of their mom's basement and out in the field > harvesting crops. A Khmer Rouge like society I suppose. > > We live how we live at the end of the day. Cheap food gives us extra > wealth to support more and more people doing nothing and being fed, > clothed and housed; even get health insurance! Make food more > expensive, and we have less to waste on deadbeats. No real problem for > me, but others might not like it so much if food prices started going > up! > > Other than direct sources, like say a government bill or UN resolution > that you can get online, I don't put too much stock in online sources > for complex highly politicized issues like this. More spin than fact, > and I don't buy politics in general. FWIW, I'm fairly "conservative" > on fiscal issues and considered very "liberal" on social issues. In my > experience, liberal sycophants are more aggressive in tearing me down > for my views than conservatives, even though I almost totally reject > the conservative social agenda. So, the long and the short of it is, you don't have a citation. You have nothing to base your conjecture on. You just pull it out of the air. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html |