Who else got an insurance rate hike?
in [Golf]
|
Prev: Jock strap recommendations for low hanging balls?
Next: Media buries story about convictions for massive election rigging
From: William Clark on 11 Apr 2010 21:44 In article <f76eae42-deca-456a-b891-7d15241fb75b(a)i37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Apr 11, 6:18�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Apr 10, 11:24�pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 6:42�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 10, 12:50�pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 9, 6:34�pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > > > > > > > >news:fd1a94bf-aa15-46ab-81c1-4461ac8c077b(a)w42g2000yqm.googlegroups.co > > > > > >m... > > > > > > > > Very stupid policy, IMHO. > > > > > > > > The whole free drug for seniors policy is/was a bad policy. This is > > > > > > typical of these sorts of things though, IMHO. Some "deal" has to > > > > > > be > > > > > > made to satisfy some contingency. How about "you use a product, > > > > > > like > > > > > > say drugs, you pay for it"? Why is that so bad? And who is going to > > > > > > pay for it if the user doesn't...and where are those people going > > > > > > to > > > > > > get the money? > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Grandma on SS and a small pension paying $300/mo. for medication, > > > > > > just to > > > > > > stay alive. �"Why is that so bad?" > > > > > > > > -Greg > > > > > > > Fine, so you can pick up the costs then? > > > > > > > The aspect of this that some, like Gray Asphalt for example, don't > > > > > seem to get is that health care has expanded and improved > > > > > dramatically > > > > > over the last few decades, and that is great. Driven a lot of > > > > > economic > > > > > activity and given people access to better health care. > > > > > > > For example, in the 1970's, how many people were on blood thinners > > > > > and > > > > > statins? Today? In the 1970's how many people had angioplasty and > > > > > stents? Today? These kinds of things cost money, and that fact has to > > > > > be accounted for. The people talking about this today seem to me to > > > > > be > > > > > using 1970's based logic on the costs of health care. > > > > > > > The fact is that *EVERYONE* is going to have use of, in some sense or > > > > > another, expensive, modern health care. So my question remains: who > > > > > pays for it? IMHO, the fairest solution is for the user to pay for > > > > > it. > > > > > If the taxpayer pays you wind up, at best, having working people > > > > > working solely to pay for health care. > > > > > > > Everyone can't have everything, the best, whatever. That applies to > > > > > housing, food, transportation, health care, clothing, > > > > > education...whatever aspect of society you want to look at. > > > > > > > So who is the decider? The govt. giving one size fits all to > > > > > everyone, > > > > > like in the UK, so John Bs mom couldn't spend her 2 million being as > > > > > comfortable as possible with her ALS, but gets the one size fits all > > > > > daily visits from some nurse, like in the UK? Or how about you get > > > > > what you can earn...and the govt helps out people in legitimate > > > > > need...but no universality to any entitlement. > > > > > > A UK-style system would not have prevented my mother from spending her > > > > money on medical and nursing care. > > > > > Depends. If she needed access to specialists and specialized > > > facilities it would have. They are tightly rationed, and money doesn't > > > buy access. > > > > You are dead wrong and you have no idea what you're talking about. > > Really. My experience of my life is that I have pretty much first hand > knowledge. Study the National Health Service. And what, pray, is your "first hand knowledge" of the National Health Service? Please be specific, unless this is just another "materials science" claim?
From: BAR on 12 Apr 2010 07:35 In article <wclark2-D7DE67.21433311042010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- state.edu>, wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > In article > <f5060e6a-72f0-4146-8c87-bdee116e9d7a(a)35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, > Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > On Apr 11, 8:09�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > wrote: > > > In article <MPG.262c27fef07c901b989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > �BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > In article <45d14ed4-d005-4e38-bd4d- > > > > 00a2fec1e...(a)c1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, johnb...(a)gmail.com says... > > > > > > > > > Why don't they just buy their own meds? What % of the population can't > > > > > > buy their own meds? How many people with golf memberships have their > > > > > > meds discounted via a govt program?...for what...to give the > > > > > > recipients enough free cash to have a golf memberships? In the mean > > > > > > time unemployment for young people is 20%, and if they get a job 1/2 > > > > > > of what they make goes to someone else. How much goes to either > > > > > > deadbeats or people who have far more assets than the young person? > > > > > > > > A substantial percentage of Americans can't buy their own meds, > > > > > including me. I take three prescription drugs. My wife takes three. If > > > > > we had to pay for them ourselves it would cost several thousand > > > > > dollars a month. Your ignorance of how people live is utterly amazing. > > > > > > > Is it society's fault that you and your wife's health is screwed up? No. > > > > > > > You could stop playing golf. You could stop high speed Internet. You > > > > could stop cable TV. You could going out to eat luch and dinner. You > > > > could stop your cell phones. > > > > > > > There are many things you could do to rearange your finances so that you > > > > can pay for your own drugs rather than brudening your friends, > > > > neighbors, and fellow citizens to support your health and life style. > > > > > > John, why don't you do as Bert says, and just go out, lie down in the > > > street, and die? That would save him from the appalling possibility of > > > ever having to do the right thing for any human being other than himself. > > > > Taking other people's resources to solve your problems is not selfish? > > Why can't you use your resources to solve your problems? We can help > > the poor, but that is another issue. > > Alternatively, why can't I use my resources to help others? I know this > is a terrible anti-Fox notion, but some people actually feel that it is > the right thing to do. Obviously not you and Bertie. Billy, I have told you numerous times that you are free to set up a charity and solicit money from others who think and believe like you. You will then be free to redistribute that money to your hearts desire to help those you believe need help. This can be accomplished without any government intervention. The problem you will soon find is that those who think and believe like you are unwilling to part with their own money. These believers want to implement schemes and laws that force those who disagree with them to be compelled to part with their money to fund the believers causes.
From: John B. on 12 Apr 2010 09:25 On Apr 12, 7:35 am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > In article <wclark2-D7DE67.21433311042...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > state.edu>, wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > > > > > > In article > > <f5060e6a-72f0-4146-8c87-bdee116e9...(a)35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > > On Apr 11, 8:09 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > wrote: > > > > In article <MPG.262c27fef07c901b989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > > BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > In article <45d14ed4-d005-4e38-bd4d- > > > > > 00a2fec1e...(a)c1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, johnb...(a)gmail.com says... > > > > > > > > Why don't they just buy their own meds? What % of the population can't > > > > > > > buy their own meds? How many people with golf memberships have their > > > > > > > meds discounted via a govt program?...for what...to give the > > > > > > > recipients enough free cash to have a golf memberships? In the mean > > > > > > > time unemployment for young people is 20%, and if they get a job 1/2 > > > > > > > of what they make goes to someone else. How much goes to either > > > > > > > deadbeats or people who have far more assets than the young person? > > > > > > > A substantial percentage of Americans can't buy their own meds, > > > > > > including me. I take three prescription drugs. My wife takes three. If > > > > > > we had to pay for them ourselves it would cost several thousand > > > > > > dollars a month. Your ignorance of how people live is utterly amazing. > > > > > > Is it society's fault that you and your wife's health is screwed up? No. > > > > > > You could stop playing golf. You could stop high speed Internet. You > > > > > could stop cable TV. You could going out to eat luch and dinner. You > > > > > could stop your cell phones. > > > > > > There are many things you could do to rearange your finances so that you > > > > > can pay for your own drugs rather than brudening your friends, > > > > > neighbors, and fellow citizens to support your health and life style. > > > > > John, why don't you do as Bert says, and just go out, lie down in the > > > > street, and die? That would save him from the appalling possibility of > > > > ever having to do the right thing for any human being other than himself. > > > > Taking other people's resources to solve your problems is not selfish? > > > Why can't you use your resources to solve your problems? We can help > > > the poor, but that is another issue. > > > Alternatively, why can't I use my resources to help others? I know this > > is a terrible anti-Fox notion, but some people actually feel that it is > > the right thing to do. Obviously not you and Bertie. > > Billy, I have told you numerous times that you are free to set up a > charity and solicit money from others who think and believe like you. > You will then be free to redistribute that money to your hearts desire > to help those you believe need help. This can be accomplished without > any government intervention. > > The problem you will soon find is that those who think and believe like > you are unwilling to part with their own money. These believers want to > implement schemes and laws that force those who disagree with them to be > compelled to part with their money to fund the believers causes.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - And those who think and believe like you represent about 0.00000001% of the population. But I guess you're smarter than all the rest of us.
From: dene on 12 Apr 2010 13:23 "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message news:0e5ec990-aecb-4c97-b235-330a9cd38b15(a)r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... On Apr 10, 11:37 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > > news:e30d26b2-dac7-4ef3-b919-718e040459f6(a)z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 10, 3:49 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > > >news:73b1da5a-b64d-46e1-9e92-8506b0b2ba4a(a)u31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... > > On Apr 9, 1:55 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > > > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > > > >news:8f9e8c65-f27d-40ce-974a-aca10aca853d(a)y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > People have that choice now and often take it....but it's not the best > > > > choice for everyone. For example...young married couple in their 20's, > > > > having children. Are you expecting them to pony up the first 10k for > the > > > > pre-natal and delivery? > > > > > -Greg > > > > People do not have that choice. They get the health insurance provided > > > by their employer, and that insurance is far too often designed to > > > suit the needs of the older (and more powerful within the company) > > > employees. People need to be able to choose their own insurance as > > > much as possible, and certainty don't need the govt. or their > > > employers making those choices. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Employers pay most, if not all, the insurance for the employee, so they > > > ain't complaining. Their dependents have the choice of buying in or > > > acquiring their own plans, which they often do. There are no victims in > > > your scenario. They have choices. > > > > -Greg > > > The money allocated to salaries and benefits is a budgeted item. You > > want to be as competitive as possible. If the money were not spent on > > health insurance, it would go to salary. My advocacy is for the > > employee to get the benefit of what they earn and make their own > > decisions with respect to things like health care, as opposed to have > > the salary paid to the employee reduced and some health insurance > > program imposed on the employee by the employer...or the govt..the > > govt would be worse though, IMHO as it is in fact less responsive to > > the employee and far more expensive. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > IOW, people buy health insurance like they buy car insurance. Fine with > me. > > You still have to force people to buy it otherwise only the sick will buy > it > > in their time of need. In the scenario you wish for, how do you force them > > to buy? The present system does a fair job of enrolling all, by forcing > the > > employees to particpate. Again, how is this accomplished on an individual > > basis? > > > -Greg > >What happens if you buy car insurance after you have an accident? You > >pay for the accident. > > Not if medical is involved or loss of property. Uninsured people skate > right out of those liabilties. > > >You can pay for your own health care too. One > >thing for sure, there is not enough wealth in the system to have the > >govt pay for everyone's health care. > > Can you honestly pay for a few days in ICU? I can't and I doubt if you can > either! > > There is sufficient wealth to pay claims for all if all are participating in > the plan. That's how insurance works. > > Now answer my question, Rob. If you throw out the employer system, how do > you force everybody to buy health insurance or pay their own claims? > > -Greg Just the premiss that you need to use force to collect the needed revenue is chilling enough for me. Use the same "force" you use to collect from people who get in auto accidents and don't have insurance. *INSURANCE* is no problem for me. Health care is not health insurance though, and we cannot continue to buy routine health care through insurance because everyone is a consumer. The 1970's idea that the healthy pay for the sick is invalid. Everyone is a consumer of health care..so everyone pays for everyone? That's what I see anyways, so we reduce health care to the lowest common denominator, like in the UK; we all pay in according to our ability to pay and receive the same health care. Socialism, plain and simple. FWIW, people like you are toast and don't know it. The collective entities they set up will blow you away because they will be government subsidized, and you won't be able to compete with them. As various needs of various people like grannies on fixed incomes are revealed as not being served by people like you, you will be shoved aside for collectives that will look after granny with the same level of care you get. Not that grannies care will improve a lot, but yours will decline to the point where we all get the same level of care! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob, You're quite good at philosophically describing the problem. However, you're evasive with the solution. If you really have one, spell it out clearly. -Greg
From: dene on 12 Apr 2010 13:24
"Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message news:d9cfcc15-9cb1-4097-9159-afdbb05872f1(a)u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com... On Apr 10, 11:39 pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote in message > > news:906376a6-c6c2-4ea1-9757-37fea5e6d0b2(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > Really? So no one can buy their own meds? No one? That's an absurd > conclusion. > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Rob, > > In 2006, I signed up about 100 seniors on part D plans. Part of the > enrollment was reviewing the cost of their meds, so they could choose how > much coverage they need. Some of these people were easily paying $300 plus > for medicine and didn't have the means to do it. > > You really need to wake up as to how much stuff costs out there, beyond > generic Rx. Enrolling these people was very eye opening to me. > > -Greg Really? So A guy who pays $6K per year to golf can't pay $300.00 per month for meds? So who is going to pay then? The govt clearly doesn't have the money. People who need help should get it, but those who don't shouldn't. How about people who pay $6K per year to drive a car. Should we buy their meds too? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The golfer can. Granny in a single wide cannot. -Greg |