health care
in [Golf]
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From: Dinosaur_Sr on 23 Feb 2010 16:26 On Feb 22, 6:10 pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:35:48 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr > > <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > >> >Cost is not the important issue. Accessibility is more important. Why > >> >should I have my health care reduced to some common denominator to > >> >satisfy the govts desire to give free healthcare to deadbeats? > > >> You already do. There isn't a public debate between providing such > >> care or eliminating such care. There are some arguments about how > >> cost effective it is to have healthy job seekers, similar to questions > >> about public education. But since removing such health care is not > >> an option on the table, why are so many people bringing it up? > > >The objection centers around loss of freedom. There is no way a govt > >delivered system can provide the options a private system can. > > So why do people keep bring up cost, if that isn't the objection? > "Everybody" doesn't bring it up. The govt brings it up because for them it is THE issue. Health care is getting very expensive because it is getting very good. It's amazing to me what is available today, but it costs money to do it. The current govt is welded to the idea of universal entitlements, and to have that with health care cost has to come down a lot. You can't bring down cost and have the same quality though.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 23 Feb 2010 16:27 On Feb 22, 6:13 pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:09:18 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr > > <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > >You have to make a choice. There is no limitless supply of goods and > >services that can be distributed by government command. IF health care > >is a necessity of life, how did humans survive tens of thousands of > >years without it? > > Nobody survived that long. > > But humanity has survived at various times without education, roads, > houses, farms, etc. > Great points. Humanity has survived for many thousands of years without education, health care and roads, so they are obviously not necessities.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 23 Feb 2010 16:32 On Feb 22, 7:15 pm, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > In article <4b8307e0$0$5115$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:27:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > > > On 21-Feb-2010, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > > > >>> Cost here, life expectancy there. Are you suggesting that actual > > >>> facts in the form of verifiable statistics are somehow more > > >>> "superficial" than your and Bert's ideologically driven rants? > > >>> You're kidding, right? > > > >> This is becoming stylish. Periodically it becomes politically > > >> successful to rail against intellectuals. Not to the extent that > > >> Pol Pot did (killing everybody who wore glasses), but close to Sarah > > >> Palin levels. > > > >> When people do this, a common thing is to give all opinions the same > > >> weight. Evidence doesn't matter. > > > > statistics are not evidence as they can be played with to support any > > > opinion under the sun > > > So you keep saying. Funny, you haven't produced even the slightest > > argument as to what could be wrong with: > > > 1. Cost of healthcare per capita as a percentage of GDP. > > When reporters asked Shepard what he thought about as he sat atop the > Redstone rocket, waiting for liftoff, he had replied, 'The fact that > every part of this ship was built by the low bidder.' > > > 2. Average life expectancy by country. > > What's more important, quality of life or length of life? I did more by > the age of 30 than you've done in your entire life. The stats are bogus anyways, as are most politically based stats. The costs stats don' t include the cost of the system and the cost of governance associated with that, only the cost of the "care". The life expectancy stats don't include everybody in places like France, and don't include the fact that the US is a gathering place of people from around the world, whereas France is for French only, and not too many other people want to go there. Funny that an alien in the US is failing to account for this. I wonder though, if Americans treated Mexicans the way the French treat Algerians, or the way the Italians treat North Africans, would the outcry not be deafening?
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 23 Feb 2010 16:35 On Feb 22, 7:28 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:15:43 -0500, BAR wrote: > > In article <4b8307e0$0$5115$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > >> 1. Cost of healthcare per capita as a percentage of GDP. > > > When reporters asked Shepard what he thought about as he sat atop the > > Redstone rocket, waiting for liftoff, he had replied, 'The fact that > > every part of this ship was built by the low bidder.' > > >> 2. Average life expectancy by country. > > > What's more important, quality of life or length of life? I did more > > by the age of 30 than you've done in your entire life. > > The problem is that while the US outspends every single country on the > planet in healthcare, its health outcomes are terrible. Fully four dozen > countries have better average life expectancies than the US. It's unjust > and it's corrupt, but mostly it's just inefficient. Terrible? So if you need health care you will go back to Canada, or go to Sweden to get better healthcare? The best healthcare is in the US, and variable to the overwhelming majority of Americans and to anyone else in the world who wants it. You can quote all the stats you want, but to deny the quality of care in the US makes your side look like idiots. What is silly is that you want to destroy that quality of care for the sake of the concept of universal entitlement. What is really idiotic here is that every one of us will in fact get sick and die, and no govt entitlement boondoggle will change that.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 23 Feb 2010 16:38
On Feb 22, 7:41 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > In article > <0743aef5-f6cb-40af-abcd-486e665e3...(a)15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > On Feb 22, 4:45 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > state.edu> wrote: > > > In article > > > <49904568-b75d-48dd-99b5-5bfda8a3a...(a)d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Feb 21, 5:08 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > In article > > > > > <1f1f533c-c3d7-457e-afb6-15074fb87...(a)33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 19, 8:57 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 7:12 am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article <4b7de8c5$0$4967$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > > > > > > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:30:41 -0500, BAR wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > > > <4b7dcb52$0$27203$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > > > > > > > > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:24:00 -0800, John B. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>> I don't wany my access to all the above to be dependent on > > > > > > > > > >>> my > > > > > > > > > >>> employment and how much my employer is willing to spend on > > > > > > > > > >>> health > > > > > > > > > >>> insurance. If I were to lose my job, I wouldn't be able to > > > > > > > > > >>> afford > > > > > > > > > >>> the medications I depend on. If I were to sell my house and > > > > > > > > > >>> take my > > > > > > > > > >>> kids out of college so I could afford to buy my own > > > > > > > > > >>> insurance > > > > > > > > > >>> policy, it wouldn't cover my meds because they would be > > > > > > > > > >>> deemed > > > > > > > > > >>> to be > > > > > > > > > >>> for a pre- existing condition. What's your solution to > > > > > > > > > >>> that, > > > > > > > > > >>> Bert? > > > > > > > > > > >> Don't get sick. And if you do, die quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > Access to health care is not dependent upon employment. > > > > > > > > > > > If you were better at negotiating pay with your employer and > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > did a > > > > > > > > > > better job saving money you would have enough money to pay > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > health care. Instead you have abdicated your personal > > > > > > > > > > responsibility > > > > > > > > > > to someone else which has made you dependent upon their > > > > > > > > > > generosity and > > > > > > > > > > goodwill. > > > > > > > > > > > When the teat is taken away you are lost and can't figure out > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > your next meal is coming from. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, but I've heard all this clueless propaganda before. > > > > > > > > > I am > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > favor of universal healthcare because it is cheaper and more > > > > > > > > > humane. You > > > > > > > > > obviously do not know the first thing about it, and yet you are > > > > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > > > that you're right. > > > > > > > > > If you want Universal Health Care there are many countries around > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > world that offer it and there is no one stopping you from > > > > > > > > emigrating > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > any of them except you.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > Every industrialized country on earth offers universal health care > > > > > > > except the U.S., yet the U.S. is the only one of them that's > > > > > > > embroiled > > > > > > > in a debate about health care. > > > > > > > Where has all the innovation and improvement in health care come from > > > > > > over this period? > > > > > > Well. let's take one example. Hip surgery; the hip resurfacing > > > > > operation, which is now considered the best option, especially for the > > > > > young and active, came from the UK. > > > > > > Oops. > > > > > Oh boy! Bone scraping! How innovative! You want to line that one up > > > > against all the innovations that came from the US? > > > > Well, we could add to that, but this just shows how chlldishly > > > simplistic your postulate was. Where, for example, was the first heart > > > transplant performed? Yawn. > > > If Clark needs a heart transplant, send him to South Africa! > > Definitely not the US! > > > There's another 1 thing to put up against all the things that come out > > of the US. > > Well, it's so damn easy to find these things in a millisecond. The only > stupid thing would be to claim that "all the innovation and improvement > in health care" has come from the US. > > No one would be dumb enough to do that, would they? No problem. When you need a treatment, avoid those developed in the US. It's hard to name a meaningful treatment that is widely used today that was not originated in the US. Even Barnard: I wonder how many of the procedures he used, equipment and meds he used were developed in the US? Same for the hip scrapers...how much of the technology they used to develop their particular technique came from the US? |