From: John B. on 23 Feb 2010 17:26 On Feb 23, 4:43 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 22, 7:54 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:37:35 -0500, BAR wrote: > > > In article <4b832127$0$4888$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > >> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:15:43 -0500, BAR wrote: > > >>> In article <4b8307e0$0$5115$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > >>> nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > > >>>> 1. Cost of healthcare per capita as a percentage of GDP. > > > >>> When reporters asked Shepard what he thought about as he sat atop > > >>> the Redstone rocket, waiting for liftoff, he had replied, 'The fact > > >>> that every part of this ship was built by the low bidder.' > > > >>>> 2. Average life expectancy by country. > > > >>> What's more important, quality of life or length of life? I did more > > >>> by the age of 30 than you've done in your entire life. > > > >> The problem is that while the US outspends every single country on > > >> the planet in healthcare, its health outcomes are terrible. Fully > > >> four dozen countries have better average life expectancies than the > > >> US. It's unjust and it's corrupt, but mostly it's just inefficient. > > > > Why is life expectancy your only measure of a satisfactory health care > > > system? > > > There are other measures of course, but I like life average expectancy > > because it delivers hard, verifiable numbers about how good a job does > > of keeping its citizens alive. Coupled with the cost per capita cite, > > there is insight into how efficiently a country provides healthcare for > > its citizens. It would appear that the US healthcare system is very > > inefficient compared with dozens of other countries. > > > And, it doesn't hurt that average life expectancy cite comes from the > > CIA's own World Fact Book.http://goo.gl/fZQW > > Then why do people from all over the world come to the US for > healthcare?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - They don't.
From: John B. on 23 Feb 2010 17:27 On Feb 23, 4:43 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 22, 8:35 pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:45:39 -0500, William Clark > > > <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > > >More like an immensely powerful automobile lobby that has poured untold > > >millions into squashing public transport plans all over the US. School > > >bussing would not be necessary if there was adequate public transport > > >everywhere. > > > I'm not sure most Americans are willing to have young children taking > > public transportation even if it were adequate for the task. > > Really, better to sit with the gang bangers on the school bus? There are gang-bangers on school buses, but not on public buses? Where do you live? North Dakota?
From: William Clark on 23 Feb 2010 17:37 In article <64ec0791-9f24-4e5d-b107-6b971334a227(a)g23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 22, 7:15�pm, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > In article <4b8307e0$0$5115$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:27:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > > > > On 21-Feb-2010, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > > > > > >>> Cost here, life expectancy there. Are you suggesting that actual > > > >>> facts in the form of verifiable statistics are somehow more > > > >>> "superficial" than your and Bert's ideologically driven rants? > > > >>> You're kidding, right? > > > > > >> This is becoming stylish. � Periodically it becomes politically > > > >> successful to rail against intellectuals. � �Not to the extent that > > > >> Pol Pot did (killing everybody who wore glasses), but close to Sarah > > > >> Palin levels. > > > > > >> When people do this, a common thing is to give all opinions the same > > > >> weight. � �Evidence doesn't matter. > > > > > > statistics are not evidence as they can be played with to support any > > > > opinion under the sun > > > > > So you keep saying. Funny, you haven't produced even the slightest > > > argument as to what could be wrong with: > > > > > 1. Cost of healthcare per capita as a percentage of GDP. > > > > When reporters asked Shepard what he thought about as he sat atop the > > Redstone rocket, waiting for liftoff, he had replied, 'The fact that > > every part of this ship was built by the low bidder.' > > > > > 2. Average life expectancy by country. > > > > What's more important, quality of life or length of life? I did more by > > the age of 30 than you've done in your entire life. > > The stats are bogus anyways, as are most politically based stats. The > costs stats don' t include the cost of the system and the cost of > governance associated with that, only the cost of the "care". The life > expectancy stats don't include everybody in places like France, and > don't include the fact that the US is a gathering place of people from > around the world, whereas France is for French only, and not too many > other people want to go there. Funny that an alien in the US is > failing to account for this. I wonder though, if Americans treated > Mexicans the way the French treat Algerians, or the way the Italians > treat North Africans, would the outcry not be deafening? What total apologist BS. Are you nuts?
From: William Clark on 23 Feb 2010 17:38 In article <b6dad555-d79c-45dd-8890-11ba782fa2dc(a)a1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 22, 6:13�pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:09:18 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur Sr > > > > <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > >You have to make a choice. There is no limitless supply of goods and > > >services that can be distributed by government command. IF health care > > >is a necessity of life, how did humans survive tens of thousands of > > >years without it? > > > > Nobody survived that long. � � > > > > But humanity has survived at various times without education, roads, > > houses, farms, etc. > > > > Great points. Humanity has survived for many thousands of years > without education, health care and roads, so they are obviously not > necessities. And from the look of your posts, some members of the specie continue to survive without education.
From: William Clark on 23 Feb 2010 17:40
In article <83fb00cc-60cb-456d-9bfc-ee105ccd5786(a)o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 23, 4:42�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > On Feb 22, 7:45�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > In article > > > <69fab732-6a92-4caf-9043-79f2ac637...(a)d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Feb 22, 4:49�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > In article > > > > > <a2ef6843-e23d-4282-98b3-8bf670aab...(a)g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 22, 1:51�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:37�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:18�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 9:43�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16�pm, Carbon > > > > > > > > > > > > <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> point > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> be the > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> overbilling > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> an > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everyday > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> you > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ideologues, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthcare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal > > > > > > > > > > > > > healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > > > that has > > > > > > > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United > > > > > > > > > > > > > States. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahead, > > > > > > > > > > > > > we'll wait. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those > > > > > > > > > > > > countries. In > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance. > > > > > > > > > > > �They can > > > > > > > > > > > shop > > > > > > > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want. > > > > > > > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > costs > > > > > > > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > pay > > > > > > > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. > > > > > > > > > > They'll > > > > > > > > > > pay > > > > > > > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people > > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > govt.- > > > > > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous > > > > > > > > > luxuries as > > > > > > > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start > > > > > > > > > buying > > > > > > > > > food and clothing! > > > > > > > > > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive > > > > > > > > German car > > > > > > > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for > > > > > > > > health > > > > > > > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses. > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter > > > > > > of > > > > > > allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs. > > > > > > > No, because most cities in the US don't have public transport. The > > > > > likes > > > > > of you and Bertie aren't willing to pay for that either. > > > > > > Public transport in the US is lacking because they bus kids to school, > > > > and low income people can afford cars. Not much market for the public > > > > transit system in most US locations. > > > > > More like an immensely powerful automobile lobby that has poured untold > > > millions into squashing public transport plans all over the US. School > > > bussing would not be necessary if there was adequate public transport > > > everywhere. > > > > I guess you gotta go with the messages you get from the moon! However, > > if kids took public transit to school, and more poor people had to > > rely on public transit, the US landscape would be different. > > > > When I lived in Toronto, they made no bones about the fact that > > without school kids taking the public transit to school, the TTC would > > be screwed. FWIW, one of the dumbest things about the US, IMHO, is > > busing kids to school. They waste millions (maybe billions) in > > education dollars on it, and it seriously damages public > > transportation.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > How do you recommend children (you obviously don't have any) get to > school? They fly on their broomsticks, I imagine. |