From: John B. on
On Feb 23, 4:43 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> On Feb 22, 7:54 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:37:35 -0500, BAR wrote:
> > > In article <4b832127$0$4888$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
> > >> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:15:43 -0500, BAR wrote:
> > >>> In article <4b8307e0$0$5115$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> > >>> nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>
> > >>>> 1. Cost of healthcare per capita as a percentage of GDP.
>
> > >>> When reporters asked Shepard what he thought about as he sat atop
> > >>> the Redstone rocket, waiting for liftoff, he had replied, 'The fact
> > >>> that every part of this ship was built by the low bidder.'
>
> > >>>> 2. Average life expectancy by country.
>
> > >>> What's more important, quality of life or length of life? I did more
> > >>> by the age of 30 than you've done in your entire life.
>
> > >> The problem is that while the US outspends every single country on
> > >> the planet in healthcare, its health outcomes are terrible. Fully
> > >> four dozen countries have better average life expectancies than the
> > >> US. It's unjust and it's corrupt, but mostly it's just inefficient.
>
> > > Why is life expectancy your only measure of a satisfactory health care
> > > system?
>
> > There are other measures of course, but I like life average expectancy
> > because it delivers hard, verifiable numbers about how good a job does
> > of keeping its citizens alive. Coupled with the cost per capita cite,
> > there is insight into how efficiently a country provides healthcare for
> > its citizens. It would appear that the US healthcare system is very
> > inefficient compared with dozens of other countries.
>
> > And, it doesn't hurt that average life expectancy cite comes from the
> > CIA's own World Fact Book.http://goo.gl/fZQW
>
> Then why do people from all over the world come to the US for
> healthcare?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

They don't.
From: John B. on
On Feb 23, 4:43 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> On Feb 22, 8:35 pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:45:39 -0500, William Clark
>
> > <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote:
> > >More like an immensely powerful automobile lobby that has poured untold
> > >millions into squashing public transport plans all over the US. School
> > >bussing would not be necessary if there was adequate public transport
> > >everywhere.
>
> > I'm not sure most Americans are willing to have young children taking
> > public transportation even if it were adequate for the task.
>
> Really, better to sit with the gang bangers on the school bus?

There are gang-bangers on school buses, but not on public buses? Where
do you live? North Dakota?
From: William Clark on
In article
<64ec0791-9f24-4e5d-b107-6b971334a227(a)g23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote:

> On Feb 22, 7:15�pm, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote:
> > In article <4b8307e0$0$5115$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:27:15 +0000, assimilate wrote:
> > > > On 21-Feb-2010, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote:
> >
> > > >>> Cost here, life expectancy there. Are you suggesting that actual
> > > >>> facts in the form of verifiable statistics are somehow more
> > > >>> "superficial" than your and Bert's ideologically driven rants?
> > > >>> You're kidding, right?
> >
> > > >> This is becoming stylish. � Periodically it becomes politically
> > > >> successful to rail against intellectuals. � �Not to the extent that
> > > >> Pol Pot did (killing everybody who wore glasses), but close to Sarah
> > > >> Palin levels.
> >
> > > >> When people do this, a common thing is to give all opinions the same
> > > >> weight. � �Evidence doesn't matter.
> >
> > > > statistics are not evidence as they can be played with to support any
> > > > opinion under the sun
> >
> > > So you keep saying. Funny, you haven't produced even the slightest
> > > argument as to what could be wrong with:
> >
> > > 1. Cost of healthcare per capita as a percentage of GDP.
> >
> > When reporters asked Shepard what he thought about as he sat atop the
> > Redstone rocket, waiting for liftoff, he had replied, 'The fact that
> > every part of this ship was built by the low bidder.'
> >
> > > 2. Average life expectancy by country.
> >
> > What's more important, quality of life or length of life? I did more by
> > the age of 30 than you've done in your entire life.
>
> The stats are bogus anyways, as are most politically based stats. The
> costs stats don' t include the cost of the system and the cost of
> governance associated with that, only the cost of the "care". The life
> expectancy stats don't include everybody in places like France, and
> don't include the fact that the US is a gathering place of people from
> around the world, whereas France is for French only, and not too many
> other people want to go there. Funny that an alien in the US is
> failing to account for this. I wonder though, if Americans treated
> Mexicans the way the French treat Algerians, or the way the Italians
> treat North Africans, would the outcry not be deafening?

What total apologist BS. Are you nuts?
From: William Clark on
In article
<b6dad555-d79c-45dd-8890-11ba782fa2dc(a)a1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote:

> On Feb 22, 6:13�pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:09:18 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur Sr
> >
> > <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > >You have to make a choice. There is no limitless supply of goods and
> > >services that can be distributed by government command. IF health care
> > >is a necessity of life, how did humans survive tens of thousands of
> > >years without it?
> >
> > Nobody survived that long. � �
> >
> > But humanity has survived at various times without education, roads,
> > houses, farms, etc.
> >
>
> Great points. Humanity has survived for many thousands of years
> without education, health care and roads, so they are obviously not
> necessities.

And from the look of your posts, some members of the specie continue to
survive without education.
From: William Clark on
In article
<83fb00cc-60cb-456d-9bfc-ee105ccd5786(a)o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
"John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 23, 4:42�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > On Feb 22, 7:45�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article
> > > <69fab732-6a92-4caf-9043-79f2ac637...(a)d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 22, 4:49�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> > > > state.edu> wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <a2ef6843-e23d-4282-98b3-8bf670aab...(a)g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > > > > On Feb 22, 1:51�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:37�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:18�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 9:43�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16�pm, Carbon
> > > > > > > > > > > > <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> point
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> be the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> overbilling
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everyday
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> event.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ideologues, huh?
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthcare.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > healthcare
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United
> > > > > > > > > > > > > States.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Go
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ahead,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > we'll wait.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those
> > > > > > > > > > > > countries. In
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance.
> > > > > > > > > > > �They can
> > > > > > > > > > > shop
> > > > > > > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want.
> > > > > > > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > costs
> > > > > > > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose
> > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > pay
> > > > > > > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem.
> > > > > > > > > > They'll
> > > > > > > > > > pay
> > > > > > > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people
> > > > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > govt.-
> > > > > > > > > > Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous
> > > > > > > > > luxuries as
> > > > > > > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start
> > > > > > > > > buying
> > > > > > > > > food and clothing!
> >
> > > > > > > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive
> > > > > > > > German car
> > > > > > > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for
> > > > > > > > health
> > > > > > > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses.
> >
> > > > > > Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs.
> >
> > > > > No, because most cities in the US don't have public transport. The
> > > > > likes
> > > > > of you and Bertie aren't willing to pay for that either.
> >
> > > > Public transport in the US is lacking because they bus kids to school,
> > > > and low income people can afford cars. Not much market for the public
> > > > transit system in most US locations.
> >
> > > More like an immensely powerful automobile lobby that has poured untold
> > > millions into squashing public transport plans all over the US. School
> > > bussing would not be necessary if there was adequate public transport
> > > everywhere.
> >
> > I guess you gotta go with the messages you get from the moon! However,
> > if kids took public transit to school, and more poor people had to
> > rely on public transit, the US landscape would be different.
> >
> > When I lived in Toronto, they made no bones about the fact that
> > without school kids taking the public transit to school, the TTC would
> > be screwed. FWIW, one of the dumbest things about the US, IMHO, is
> > busing kids to school. They waste millions (maybe billions) in
> > education dollars on it, and it seriously damages public
> > transportation.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> How do you recommend children (you obviously don't have any) get to
> school?

They fly on their broomsticks, I imagine.