From: Alan Baker on 9 Mar 2010 02:40
Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 6:10�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 3, 5:09�pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > On Mar 3, 5:00�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mar 3, 4:15�pm, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:04:35 -0600, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote:
> > > > > >>Businessmen are smarter than politicians. �
> > > > > >George Bush was a businessman.
> > > > > True, but he was smart enough to get himself elected president twice.
> > > > > He was also smart enough to know that it's businessmen who made the US
> > > > > the richest and most powerful nation on earth and it's best to leave
> > > > > them alone.
> > > > If we had left "businessmen" alone, we would not have clean air to
> > > > breathe, clean water to drink, safe cars to drive, safe food to eat,
> > > > safe working conditions, building codes, truth in advertising, anti-
> > > > trust protection, equal opportunity in employment and housing....jeez,
> > > > I could go on all day.
> > > That is simply not true. Mining companies I know of have, on their
> > > own, reclaimed the land after they left. Some leave a scarred earth,
> > > some don't. To say that all businessmen are bad like that is akin to
> > > saying all politicians are corrupt.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > On their own? How do you know they did it on their own?
> Because a close family member worked for them. The idea was to develop
> a method of reclaiming these sites that could be sold. It's called
> doing business; responding to a potential market. It's not the same as
> responding to the idle concerns of urban deadbeats.
Names, sir. Let us see some names...
Vancouver, British Columbia
From: BAR on 9 Mar 2010 07:38
In article <wclark2-61A5BA.22180408032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-
state.edu>, wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says...
> > You sounded very proud of the fact that you and your family didn't pay a
> > penny for your fathers needed health care.
> My family had contributed the the National Health Service all their
> lives, through their taxes. This fair and equitable system provided very
> well for us when my father was stricken, as it would for all citizens.
> Quit trying to excuse your mean spirited little taunt.
The measure of a man is how he treats his family in its time of need. It
appears that your were not there in deed nor in means.
From: William Clark on 9 Mar 2010 07:53
In article <MPG.26000b4571c731dc989cbb(a)news.giganews.com>,
BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote:
> In article <wclark2-61A5BA.22180408032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-
> state.edu>, wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says...
> > >
> > > You sounded very proud of the fact that you and your family didn't pay a
> > > penny for your fathers needed health care.
> > My family had contributed the the National Health Service all their
> > lives, through their taxes. This fair and equitable system provided very
> > well for us when my father was stricken, as it would for all citizens.
> > Quit trying to excuse your mean spirited little taunt.
> The measure of a man is how he treats his family in its time of need. It
> appears that your were not there in deed nor in means.
Is it your fervent desire to make yourself look more and more of a
moronic lowlife with each subsequent post? Because right now, you are
succeeding brilliantly in doing so.
You know nothing of my interactions with, and role in, my family during
my father's progression through ALS. How dare you make such a
pathetically petty and snide comment. You are a truly contemptible
From: BAR on 9 Mar 2010 08:07
In article <clark-0401B2.07563509032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-
state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says...
> > I find it sickening that a grown man, Billy Clark, would crow about how
> > it cost him nothing in time nor money to have his father cared for
> > during his fathers mortal illness. This is the epitome of abdication of
> > personal responsibility and compassion.
> > Here in the US we put laws into place so that people, like Billy Clark's
> > father, with means would have to spend those means on themselves before
> > they dipped into the community pot.
> You really are as dumb as a rock. But I understand that you absolutely
> have to pour cold water on the notion that a society in which everyone
> contributes to the cost of health care so that everyone can receive it,
> is deathly anathema to your stupid wingnut bigotry. How charming it is
> that he feels that every family involved in a degenerative illness
> should be left destitute at the end of it.
Everyone receives health care if they show up at an emergency room. If
it isn't immediately life threatening.
Health care is not a right. Health care is a service. If you want health
care then pay for it.
If the Citizens of the US want to change the US Constitution and turn
health care into a right then the Citizens of the US have a vehicle for
> You are truly a piece of ignorant scum.
I am a firm believer in the US Constitution. It is a magnificent
document that defined who and what we are and it provided for who and
what we are to be changed over time. That change is not easy nor should
it be but, it can be done if the people are motivated enough to make the
Again, health care is not a right.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 9 Mar 2010 14:36
On Mar 8, 5:08 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> In article
> Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > On Mar 8, 9:45 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> > state.edu> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <4ac95e14-5204-4e8b-ac45-42d73355c...(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > > On Mar 7, 7:31 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <768b0082-debe-40e1-9223-9ae266827...(a)a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > > > > On Mar 5, 3:40 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
> > > > > > state.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > snippit....
> > > > > > That's probably about the care you could get for $2 million in the UK
> > > > > > I suppose. ALS is a degenerative disease that you can do little for
> > > > > > (although there are some treatments that supposedly ameliorate the
> > > > > > cell damage somewhat).
> > > > > Good thing you snipped all the details of the care provided for my
> > > > > father, otherwise your lean-spirited little gibe would really show you
> > > > > up for the hypocrite you are. Please don't presume to patronize me on
> > > > > ALS - I have forgotten more about the disease than you will ever know
> > > > > about it.
> > > > > > Having someone visit from time to time, regardless of the interval, is
> > > > > > not that big a deal. Providing the actual medical treatment in a
> > > > > > modern facility is quite another. "Home based care" is one of the
> > > > > > major ways those who think we want this plan to cut costs. Home
> > > > > > appendectomy anyone?
> > > > > "Having someone visit from time to time" is nothing at all to do with in
> > > > > home nursing care, provided twice a day (and more often if requested).
> > > > > It has nothing to do with family doctors that pay house calls to needy
> > > > > patients. I am glad that you think that this whole ordeal is "not that
> > > > > big a deal". A less charitable soul than me would wish the same fate
> > > > > upon you, and then see how much you try to belittle the process and the
> > > > > care.
> > > > > The "home based care" that you sneer at (albeit in incomprehensible
> > > > > syntax), was, in fact, the saving grace for my father and our family.
> > > > > None of us could bear thinking about having to move him out of his home
> > > > > into a hospice, as would have been the best outcome he could hope for
> > > > > here. However, I am also glad that you do finally admit that providing
> > > > > in home care is not only beneficial for the patient and family, but is
> > > > > also more efficient for the health service. Amen - you have just taken
> > > > > on board the principal argument for extending early and regular health
> > > > > care to those currently unable to afford it, and who will end up in our
> > > > > emergency rooms with chronic (and very expensive) illnesses.
> > > > > Congratulations, and welcome to the side of reason.
> > > > Self righteous denigration? More of your Dr. Phil training there?
> > > > Someone stopping by a couple of times a day isn't going to do much for
> > > > an ALS victim. When they can take care of themselves, who needs
> > > > it...when they can't, they need constant care. What would be really
> > > > nice is to give them meds that ameliorate the condition. This would
> > > > have to be done over their lifetime, and could prove quite costly, but
> > > > some people might be willing to pay for it...but when the govt
> > > > decides, it's going to be too expensive, isn't it?
> > > In your haste to be snide, you seem to forget that the name of the game
> > > is health CARE. That includes curing illnesses AND caring for the sick,
> > > even if their disease is incurable. I know you have a hard time grasping
> > > that concept, fixated as you are with who pays what for what, but do try
> > > a little harder. My father got all the medication that was available for
> > > this condition - the fact is that 20 years later, we still have made
> > > little progress on ALS - and the health service paid for it all. So,
> > > please try to get it into your head that this "socialized medicine" that
> > > you are so pathological about (even though you clearly know nothing
> > > about it), provides BOTH medication and care, and cost is not an issue.
> > > "Too expensive" ? Hell, no.
> > Really? If I get ALS, I would want full time *CARE* in a care facility
> > with expertise in the area. Someone to come and clean me up twice a
> > day at home is pretty grim to me. "Home care" is substandard, cheapo
> > care in cases like this, but it is where you have to go when the
> > people have to support a useless, politicized govt bureaucracy and the
> > cost of health care with the money they earn and spend on health care.
> > FWIW, no need to support the insurance companies either, IMHO. If you
> > can pay for a house or a car, you can pay for health care, and people
> > who are too good to work can sleep in their own bed.
> Well, it doesn't surprise me that the companionship and closeness of a
> family doesn't mean much to you. That you lack such humanity is clear
> from the way you dismiss fellow human beings in your posts. Clearly
> being institutionalized will suit you better, and good luck.
> The rest of your post is just the usual bigoted ultra-right BS. Stick it.
I would prefer to have quality care, period. Some nurse coming by my
home twice a day doesn't do much for me, regardless. It's cut rate
"care". If I need specialized care, that's what I want and I would
want to have the option of choosing to spend my health care dollars
providing such specialized care for myself.