health care
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From: William Clark on 10 Mar 2010 20:35 In article <4b98380c$0$4955$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, Carbon <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:13:13 -0500, BAR wrote: > > In article <p5idp5looaunc3gkv7la2sls5k4m02ovhc(a)4ax.com>, > > bknight(a)conramp.net says... > >> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:59:51 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr > >> <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > >> > >>> I am in no way sorry that I don't buy your sanctimonious BS. Some > >>> nurse is just that. When one has a serious chronic, degenerative > >>> disorder like ALS, a nurse is not qualified to deal with problems > >>> that come up. You need a specialist MD, and if you don't know, and > >>> you sound like you don't, ALS patients can have a variety of very > >>> serious issues develop at any time. You need specialized, qualified > >>> people to deal with this, and such care is in fact available in the > >>> US to anyone...of course they have to pay for it...and if you have a > >>> problem with that then perhaps you should lead the way by providing > >>> your relatively worthless service free of charge! > >> > >> Good God Rob. How can you, with any degree of integrity, question a > >> man who has had ALS in his family? How can you question a man's > >> dedication to his father with such a disease? Do you not have a > >> scintilla of embarrassment in being such a know-it-all? Are you > >> aware that you come off as a callous prick? > > > > I stubbed my toe once and it bleed real bad. Big freaking deal. Does > > it matter whether it was ALS or Alzheimer's or any other seriously > > debilitating disease? > > If someone in your family came down with ALS or Alzheimer's you would > see things very differently, I can assure you. I'm surprised at your > shallowness. Are you? I would have said it was about par for the course for him.
From: William Clark on 10 Mar 2010 21:07 In article <671bf1c4-a8f7-4568-a7a7-371689d6756b(a)y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Mar 9, 8:12�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > wrote: > > In article > > <75cc6758-8dde-4ab8-ac9e-4c311baa6...(a)j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > On Mar 9, 3:57 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 8, 2:51 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 8, 9:45 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > > In article > > > > > > <4ac95e14-5204-4e8b-ac45-42d73355c...(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 7, 7:31 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > In article > > > > > > > > <768b0082-debe-40e1-9223-9ae266827...(a)a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.c > > > > > > > > om>, > > > > > > > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 5, 3:40 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > snippit.... > > > > > > > > > > > That's probably about the care you could get for $2 million > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the UK > > > > > > > > > I suppose. ALS is a degenerative disease that you can do > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > (although there are some treatments that supposedly > > > > > > > > > ameliorate > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cell damage somewhat). > > > > > > > > > > Good thing you snipped all the details of the care provided for > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > father, otherwise your lean-spirited little gibe would really > > > > > > > > show > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > up for the hypocrite you are. Please don't presume to patronize > > > > > > > > me > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > ALS - I have forgotten more about the disease than you will > > > > > > > > ever > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > Having someone visit from time to time, regardless of the > > > > > > > > > interval, is > > > > > > > > > not that big a deal. Providing the actual medical treatment > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > modern facility is quite another. "Home based care" is one of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > major ways those who think we want this plan to cut costs. > > > > > > > > > Home > > > > > > > > > appendectomy anyone? > > > > > > > > > > "Having someone visit from time to time" is nothing at all to > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > with in > > > > > > > > home nursing care, provided twice a day (and more often if > > > > > > > > requested). > > > > > > > > It has nothing to do with family doctors that pay house calls > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > needy > > > > > > > > patients. I am glad that you think that this whole ordeal is > > > > > > > > "not > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > big a deal". A less charitable soul than me would wish the same > > > > > > > > fate > > > > > > > > upon you, and then see how much you try to belittle the process > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > care. > > > > > > > > > > The "home based care" that you sneer at (albeit in > > > > > > > > incomprehensible > > > > > > > > syntax), was, in fact, the saving grace for my father and our > > > > > > > > family. > > > > > > > > None of us could bear thinking about having to move him out of > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > into a hospice, as would have been the best outcome he could > > > > > > > > hope > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > here. However, I am also glad that you do finally admit that > > > > > > > > providing > > > > > > > > in home care is not only beneficial for the patient and family, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > also more efficient for the health service. Amen - you have > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > taken > > > > > > > > on board the principal argument for extending early and regular > > > > > > > > health > > > > > > > > care to those currently unable to afford it, and who will end > > > > > > > > up in > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > emergency rooms with chronic (and very expensive) illnesses. > > > > > > > > Congratulations, and welcome to the side of reason. > > > > > > > > > Self righteous denigration? More of your Dr. Phil training there? > > > > > > > Someone stopping by a couple of times a day isn't going to do > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > an ALS victim. When they can take care of themselves, who needs > > > > > > > it...when they can't, they need constant care. What would be > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > nice is to give them meds that ameliorate the condition. This > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > have to be done over their lifetime, and could prove quite > > > > > > > costly, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > some people might be willing to pay for it...but when the govt > > > > > > > decides, it's going to be too expensive, isn't it? > > > > > > > > In your haste to be snide, you seem to forget that the name of the > > > > > > game > > > > > > is health CARE. That includes curing illnesses AND caring for the > > > > > > sick, > > > > > > even if their disease is incurable. I know you have a hard time > > > > > > grasping > > > > > > that concept, fixated as you are with who pays what for what, but > > > > > > do > > > > > > try > > > > > > a little harder. My father got all the medication that was > > > > > > available > > > > > > for > > > > > > this condition - the fact is that 20 years later, we still have > > > > > > made > > > > > > little progress on ALS - and the health service paid for it all. > > > > > > So, > > > > > > please try to get it into your head that this "socialized medicine" > > > > > > that > > > > > > you are so pathological about (even though you clearly know nothing > > > > > > about it), provides BOTH medication and care, and cost is not an > > > > > > issue. > > > > > > "Too expensive" ? Hell, no. > > > > > > > Really? If I get ALS, I would want full time *CARE* in a care > > > > > facility > > > > > with expertise in the area. Someone to come and clean me up twice a > > > > > day at home is pretty grim to me. "Home care" is substandard, cheapo > > > > > care in cases like this, but it is where you have to go when the > > > > > people have to support a useless, politicized govt bureaucracy and > > > > > the > > > > > cost of health care with the money they earn and spend on health > > > > > care. > > > > > FWIW, no need to support the insurance companies either, IMHO. If you > > > > > can pay for a house or a car, you can pay for health care, and people > > > > > who are too good to work can sleep in their own bed. > > > > > > I find it absolutely astounding that you would purport to lecture > > > > William or me about ALS. He lost his father and I lost my mother to > > > > it. Everything you've said here is bullshit. There is no such thing as > > > > a full-time care facility with expertise in ALS. Home care is NOT > > > > "cheapo," or substandard. You know absolutely nothing about this > > > > disease, or about health care in general, and you'd be well-advised to > > > > shut up about it. > > > > > Rubbish. I've seen the home care scam up front and personal. They push > > > you out of the hospital ASAP, barely conscious in some instances. Home > > > care is an excuse for cut rate care, and the emotional rubbish thrown > > > out to support it indicates a cynical, almost evil lack of compassion > > > by the system. > > > > God almighty, you really are a lying lowlife. My father was bright and > > fully alert right until the day he died. It would have killed his soul > > to be cut off from his family and home, and stuck in the kind of > > institution that you worship. As it was, he was at in the home he loved, > > surrounded by family and constant visitors and well wishers - another > > concept that I am sure is outside your experience. In addition, it would > > have been a total waste of resources and money to keep him in a hospital > > bed that he simply did not need or want. And you have the gall to call > > the National Health service wasteful? Your hypocrisy knows no limits. > > > > There is only one "evil" in this discussion, and that is the evil within > > you for your fellow man. God help you. > > You are a sanctimonious tool of the man. Give away all your rights and > freedoms to the man in exchange for a promise of some sort of "care". > I wish people like you could do this without harming the rights and > freedoms of sensible people because it would be fun to sit back and > watch you whine as you wallow in the mire of politicized entitlements. God, you're ignorant. I certainly hope that next time you go to the grocery store, you go overland so as not to be constrained to the roads and highways that "the man" has forced you unwillingly to take. Do you have any idea how stupid all your drivel sounds? > > You think you are the only one who has had loved ones who needed > medical care for serious disorders? Having access to specialized > facilities is not a means that excludes contact with other people, > family or whoever, it's just more costly. And for me, I'd rather have > the option of spending my wealth to get the best healthcare I can as > opposed to having some cut rate home care foisted on me by a cynical > and uncaring overly politicized inept National Health Service. The moronic witterings of one totally ignorant of their thesis - no wonder you are not at a major university. You know, go get ALS, spend a $1M on care for your selfish little self, and you will live not one day longer. You family will be saddled with the cost for years to come, however. > > How much money the govt has to allocate to health care should have no > impact on my health care when I have the resources to deal with such > issues myself. Go for it. And while you are at it, save us the cost of providing you with education for your kids, the military for your defense, libraries (in the highly unlikely event that you ever read), roads for you to drive on, national parks for you to enjoy, and so on. Go pay for it all yourself, and then you can feel really smug.
From: William Clark on 10 Mar 2010 21:08 In article <988c52f5-ea76-4b02-aeb6-b4ae1b987a0d(a)19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Mar 10, 9:24�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 10, 8:13�am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article <a8a52a7c-38b3-40eb-a826- > > > 2ba0d4767...(a)q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnb...(a)gmail.com says... > > > > > > On Mar 9, 8:06�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > In article <p5idp5looaunc3gkv7la2sls5k4m02o...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > > > �bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:59:51 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr > > > > > > <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > <clip> > > > > > > >I am in no way sorry that I don't buy your sanctimonious BS. Some > > > > > > >nurse is just that. When one has a serious chronic, degenerative > > > > > > >disorder like ALS, a nurse is not qualified to deal with problems > > > > > > >that > > > > > > >come up. You need a specialist MD, and if you don't know, and you > > > > > > >sound like you don't, ALS patients can have a variety of very > > > > > > >serious > > > > > > >issues develop at any time. You need specialized, qualified people > > > > > > >to > > > > > > >deal with this, and such care is in fact available in the US to > > > > > > >anyone...of course they have to pay for it...and if you have a > > > > > > >problem > > > > > > >with that then perhaps you should lead the way by providing your > > > > > > >relatively worthless service free of charge! > > > > > > > > <clip> > > > > > > > > Good God Rob. �How can you, with any degree of integrity, question > > > > > > a > > > > > > man who has had ALS in his family? �How can you question a man's > > > > > > dedication to his father with such a disease? �Do you not have a > > > > > > scintilla of embarrassment in being such a know-it-all? � Are you > > > > > > aware that you come off as a callous prick? > > > > > > > Easily (for him), easily again, no, and no. > > > > > > > > In short, this is one of the �typical Frostback �situations where > > > > > > you're caught blowing wind and then attack the person who is much > > > > > > more > > > > > > qualified than you in a subject. �It never flies. > > > > > > > Next he will be telling us that he has published and attended > > > > > conferences in the field of ALS. Just wait. > > > > > > It's truly incredible. I'd like to strangle him. > > > > > Nice debating technique.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > So, you're OK with him lecturing Bill and me about ALS �when both our > > parents died from it and when he knows nothing about it? > > I have not once made any sort of lecture about ALS. Really? "You need a specialist MD, and if you don't know, and you sound like you don't, ALS patients can have a variety of very serious issues develop at any time" certainly seems like your usual patronizing lecture to me. But of course not a lecture. You save those for your "expertise" in materials science or "x-ray crystallography", don't you?
From: William Clark on 10 Mar 2010 21:10 In article <ddbf216b-44ec-40f5-ad48-95e0fea9bca5(a)o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > On Mar 9, 6:57�pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:01:24 -0800, Dinosaur_Sr wrote: > > > On Mar 9, 3:57�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On Mar 8, 2:51�pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > >>> Really? If I get ALS, I would want full time *CARE* in a care > > >>> facility with expertise in the area. Someone to come and clean me up > > >>> twice a day at home is pretty grim to me. "Home care" is > > >>> substandard, cheapo care in cases like this, but it is where you > > >>> have to go when the people have to support a useless, politicized > > >>> govt bureaucracy and the cost of health care with the money they > > >>> earn and spend on health care. FWIW, no need to support the > > >>> insurance companies either, IMHO. If you can pay for a house or a > > >>> car, you can pay for health care, and people who are too good to > > >>> work can sleep in their own bed. > > > > >> I find it absolutely astounding that you would purport to lecture > > >> William or me about ALS. �He lost his father and I lost my mother to > > >> it. Everything you've said here is bullshit. There is no such thing > > >> as a full-time care facility with expertise in ALS. Home care is NOT > > >> "cheapo," or substandard. You know absolutely nothing about this > > >> disease, or about health care in general, and you'd be well-advised > > >> to shut up about it. > > > > > Rubbish. I've seen the home care scam up front and personal. They push > > > you out of the hospital ASAP, barely conscious in some instances. Home > > > care is an excuse for cut rate care, and the emotional rubbish thrown > > > out to support it indicates a cynical, almost evil lack of compassion > > > by the system. > > > > How about you just admit that you have no idea about ALS care and we all > > move on? > > I see, you have no reply to my post, so you make some unrelated > comment. Enjoy your home care! You deserve it! And if you have to wait > 8 hours for someone to come and empty your bedpan remember, it's what > you wanted! He just admitted it, John.
From: BAR on 11 Mar 2010 07:11
In article <clark-19044D.17110810032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > In article <hn943g$1vc$1(a)speranza.aioe.org>, > "Moderate" <no_spam_(a)no_mail.com> wrote: > > > "William Clark" <clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message > > news:clark-8359EA.15475510032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu... > > > In article > > > <38cbac17-f899-4138-8521-507a3276b000(a)y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2002(a)att.net> wrote: > > >> > > >> It really is amazing how the fact that I have published in the area of > > >> materials science, and attended conferences in that field bugs you. > > > > > > No it doesn't - but trying to misrepresent yourself as having done so > > > does. > > > > So why haven't you ever published anything, Willy? > > I think if you check the journals you will find well over 100 > publications with my name on them. In legitimate peer-reviewed journals, > not unreviewed one-pagers in some conference proceeding that I wouldn't > sully the title of "publication" with.. Where is your CV with your list of publications that you authored. Being so far down the list of "authors" as to be invisible doesn't count, as you recently stated. |