health care
in [Golf]
|
From: John B. on 11 Mar 2010 14:52 On Mar 11, 2:07 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 9:13 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 7:36 am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > In article <01bfp5lrgg2sdmnki7ns3htvo1hoaoc...(a)4ax.com>, > > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:42 -0500, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > >In article <i3jcp5dsccn4ake2u7vil3j2bqiicpg...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > >bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > >> You and Rob should hope that nothing like what Clark's, or John B's > > > > >> families experienced will never happen to yours. If it did I doubt > > > > >> that he would make political use of it here. > > > > > >Let's see, undiagnosed esophageal cancer, Colon cancer, Lymphoma, Breast > > > > >cancer requiring a radical bi-lateral mastectomy. And we, my sisters and > > > > >I, all have the genes that produce blood clots, got that from both > > > > >parents. And this is just my parents and siblings. If you want to talk > > > > >about Alzheimer's and the devastating effects that has on people lets > > > > >get started. > > > > > No you idiot, let's NOT get started. I guarantee you that neither > > > > Clark nor John wilt make political hay out of your family's problems, > > > > nor be callous enough to suggest that you may have made mistakes in > > > > their treatment. > > > > > >Everyone's families experience hardships and setbacks. It's how you > > > > >choose to deal with them that is at issue. Singling out a specific > > > > >illness or diseases is just the desire of someone to sit on the pity- > > > > >potty for a while. > > > > > Have you no shame???? Leave remarks about family out of these posts. > > > > Stop whining. > > > > Clark was using his father's situation to show how good the NHS system > > > in the UK is and he and you are upset that some of us didn't just sit > > > around and keep our mouths shut. If you are going to bring your family > > > in to support your argument, as Clark did, then you had better have the > > > constitutional fortitude to take some heat on the issue.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > I'm sure both Bill and I would be happy to take heat from someone with > > something intelligent to say. What we got was total bullshit from an > > ignoramus who thought he could educate us about a disease that killed > > both our parents. > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 11 Mar 2010 16:12 On Mar 11, 2:52 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 2:07 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. No problem! The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in muscle cells. Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if not all cases! Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that don't work). There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, but they are working on it. They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some treatments. If it were me, I would. There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, correlation is not indicative of causality!). Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes you and Clark I suppose.
From: John B. on 11 Mar 2010 16:33 On Mar 11, 4:12 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 2:52 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 2:07 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > > No problem! > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > muscle cells. > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > not all cases! > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > don't work). > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > but they are working on it. > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > you and Clark I suppose. I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time.
From: bknight on 11 Mar 2010 16:51 On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:12:31 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: >On Mar 11, 2:52�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Mar 11, 2:07�pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > >> >> > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - >> >> > - Show quoted text - >> >> Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > >No problem! > >The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least >in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have >the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with >ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell >death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage >to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in >muscle cells. > >Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD >is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other >molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells >because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, >particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules >like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, >are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic >ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People >whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly >can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of >ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates >over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of >something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing >oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those >enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your >mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up >most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your >mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if >not all cases! > >Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The >more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from >things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most >metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically >active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things >like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of >death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for >people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that >don't work). > >There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, >interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, >but they are working on it. > >They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage >to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed >effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The >damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in >your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had >some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some >treatments. If it were me, I would. > >There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am >personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually >associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause >could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral >neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in >direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, >correlation is not indicative of causality!). > >Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too >much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > >There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called >Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get >anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book >to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a >basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes >you and Clark I suppose. Pedant ism at its best. Isn't Wikipedia wonderful? LOL BK
From: John B. on 11 Mar 2010 17:32
On Mar 11, 4:51 pm, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote: > On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:12:31 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr > > > > > > <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > >On Mar 11, 2:52 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Mar 11, 2:07 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > >> > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - > > >> > - Show quoted text - > > >> Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > > >No problem! > > >The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > >in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > >the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > >ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > >death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > >to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > >muscle cells. > > >Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD > >is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > >molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > >because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > >particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > >like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > >are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > >ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > >whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > >can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > >ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > >over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > >something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > >oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > >enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > >mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > >most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > >mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > >not all cases! > > >Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > >more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > >things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > >metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > >active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > >like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > >death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > >people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > >don't work). > > >There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > >interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > >but they are working on it. > > >They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > >to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > >effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > >damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > >your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > >some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > >treatments. If it were me, I would. > > >There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > >personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > >associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > >could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > >neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > >direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > >correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > >Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > >much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > >There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > >Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > >anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > >to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > >basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > >you and Clark I suppose. > > Pedant ism at its best. Isn't Wikipedia wonderful? LOL > > BK- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I invite him to make a fool of himself and he says, "No problem!" Funniest thing I've seen all day. |