From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 20:23
In article <ie0jp5lvuvta5372so5kjqarqrkqg6nnt4(a)4ax.com>,
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:41:19 -0500, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote:
> >I thought.........
> You should never, ever start a sentence with those words. THAT'S
Actually, in his case, it's a blatant lie.
From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 20:25
In article <MPG.260341b497ec20de989cd1(a)news.giganews.com>,
BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote:
> In article <pi2ip55ht4biur73nmak9plni9g6n6rukk(a)4ax.com>,
> bknight(a)conramp.net says...
> > Common sense just flies right past your teeny little brain Bert.
> > We don't want to read anyone's slurs about how another's family is
> > cared for, and using that to push your political agenda.
> Clark using his family to push his political agenda is ok, however, when
> someone calls him on it you jump all over them for pushing a political
> agenda. Right Bobby, your hypocrisy and duplicity shines through again.
No, I did not. I stated the facts of the case plain and simple, for
intelligent people to consider. Obviously you are excluded from that
group. It is you and Dino who have got your political knickers in a
twist trying to discredit it for your own bigoted purposes.
From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 20:29
In article <cdpip59o6cvc11m2l6mlfp2e95gtftbjqq(a)4ax.com>,
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:12:31 -0800 (PST), Dinosaur_Sr
> <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 11, 2:52�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mar 11, 2:07�pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com>
> >> > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide
> >> > quoted text -
> >> > - Show quoted text -
> >> Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already.
> >No problem!
> >The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least
> >in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have
> >the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with
> >ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell
> >death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage
> >to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in
> >muscle cells.
> >Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD
> >is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other
> >molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells
> >because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells,
> >particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules
> >like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons,
> >are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic
> >ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People
> >whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly
> >can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of
> >ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates
> >over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of
> >something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing
> >oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those
> >enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your
> >mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up
> >most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your
> >mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if
> >not all cases!
> >Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The
> >more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from
> >things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most
> >metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically
> >active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things
> >like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of
> >death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for
> >people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that
> >don't work).
> >There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene,
> >interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly,
> >but they are working on it.
> >They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage
> >to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed
> >effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The
> >damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in
> >your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had
> >some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some
> >treatments. If it were me, I would.
> >There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am
> >personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually
> >associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause
> >could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral
> >neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in
> >direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know,
> >correlation is not indicative of causality!).
> >Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too
> >much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways.
> >There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called
> >Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get
> >anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book
> >to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a
> >basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes
> >you and Clark I suppose.
> Pedant ism at its best. Isn't Wikipedia wonderful? LOL
Amazing - he cut and pastes a whole page of stuff he doesn't understand,
and then he doesn't actually give a direct reference for it.
Plagiarism, again. He should be ashamed.
PS: I know all this already.
From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 20:29
In article <MPG.2602a95c64f7bb1a989cc7(a)news.giganews.com>,
BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote:
> In article <4b9838ac$0$4955$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:59:58 -0800, Dinosaur_Sr wrote:
> > > On Mar 9, 10:51�pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:13:08 -0700, Howard Brazee wrote:
> > >>> On 10 Mar 2010 00:00:19 GMT, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Earth to Bert: William's father paid for his healthcare ahead of
> > >>>> time, with taxes. That's how it works in the rest of the first
> > >>>> world.
> > >>>
> > >>> Heck, that's how insurance works as well. � We don't get exactly
> > >>> what we pay for, sometimes getting less, sometimes getting more.
> > >>
> > >> Healthcare in the US is an enormous, profit-based industry that has
> > >> been specifically exempted from antitrust oversight, with completely
> > >> predictable results. It's inefficient. Despite being the most
> > >> expensive healthcare system on the planet, it provides demonstrably
> > >> poor outcomes for patients.
> > >
> > > Really, so a person has cancer in the US vs a person has cancer in the
> > > UK. On average, what happens?
> > Treatment in the US costs way more.
> Because you are more likely to survive in the US than you are in the UK.
> My mother is coming up on 15 years clear of non-hodgkins lymphoma.
> Immediate and aggressive treatment when it was discovered was the
> biggest contributing factor to her survival.
But you won't live as long. Quelle surprise!
From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 20:34
Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote:
> On Mar 11, 9:13�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 11, 7:36�am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote:
> > > In article <01bfp5lrgg2sdmnki7ns3htvo1hoaoc...(a)4ax.com>,
> > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says...
> > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:42 -0500, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote:
> > > > >In article <i3jcp5dsccn4ake2u7vil3j2bqiicpg...(a)4ax.com>,
> > > > >bkni...(a)conramp.net says...
> > > > >> You and Rob should hope that nothing like what Clark's, or John B's
> > > > >> families experienced will never happen to yours. �If it did I doubt
> > > > >> that he would make political use of it here.
> > > > >Let's see, undiagnosed esophageal cancer, Colon cancer, Lymphoma,
> > > > >Breast
> > > > >cancer requiring a radical bi-lateral mastectomy. And we, my sisters
> > > > >and
> > > > >I, all have the genes that produce blood clots, got that from both
> > > > >parents. �And this is just my parents and siblings. If you want to
> > > > >talk
> > > > >about Alzheimer's and the devastating effects that has on people lets
> > > > >get started.
> > > > No you idiot, let's NOT get started. �I guarantee you that neither
> > > > Clark nor John wilt make political hay out of your family's problems,
> > > > nor be callous enough to suggest that you may have made mistakes in
> > > > their treatment.
> > > > >Everyone's families experience hardships and setbacks. It's how you
> > > > >choose to deal with them that is at issue. Singling out a specific
> > > > >illness or diseases is just the desire of someone to sit on the pity-
> > > > >potty for a while.
> > > > Have you no shame???? �Leave remarks about family out of these posts.
> > > Stop whining.
> > > Clark was using his father's situation to show how good the NHS system
> > > in the UK is and he and you are upset that some of us didn't just sit
> > > around and keep our mouths shut. If you are going to bring your family
> > > in to support your argument, as Clark did, then you had better have the
> > > constitutional fortitude to take some heat on the issue.- Hide quoted
> > > text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > I'm sure both Bill and I would be happy to take heat from someone with
> > something intelligent to say. What we got was total bullshit from an
> > ignoramus who thought he could educate us about a disease that killed
> > both our parents.
> You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!
No, you can't. You can run off to Wikepedia and try to palm off a cut
and paste job as yours, but we can all see through that BS. Besides,
it's plagiarism, and I am sure someone as high minded and virtuous as
yourself wouldn't stoop to it.
I lived with this disease for three years, educated my self on its
speculated causes and avenues of research, and worked with a senior
faculty member in the medical school who has a chair partly endowed to
work on treatments and cures for ALS. I have forgotten more about this
disease than you will ever know. In the meantime, I recommend a freshman
undergraduate materials science textbook, Callister's "Materials Science
and Engineering" that might at least make you look even remotely
cognizant with materials science.