health care
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From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 09:42 In article <cca963db-2c95-4d56-88f7-6e352023c113(a)e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 8:26�am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > state.edu> wrote: > > In article > > <3694bdf9-f055-4f76-8eaa-2e390eb63...(a)g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 1:56�pm, "Moderate" <no spam @no mail.com> wrote: > > > > "MNMikeW" <MNMiik...(a)aol.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:7vsl35Fbm3U1(a)mid.individual.net... > > > > > > > "BAR" <sc...(a)you.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:MPG.2602bfb33b80b97b989cd0(a)news.giganews.com... > > > > >> In article <clark-31F53B.08321411032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > > >> state.edu>, cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > > > >>> Out there in public for anyone to look at. > > > > > > >> Where is the link? > > > > > > > Clark has something to hide, hence no link. > > > > > > His MO is to accuse people of the things he is doing. �This comes as no > > > > surprise. > > > > > In science, the little people always belittle their colleagues. We > > > have a lot of people who get some job by earning gold stars in the > > > classroom, but when it comes to actually producing real science, they > > > just don't have it, and so they justify themselves through the > > > belittlement of others. We have seen it a couple of times here on RSG. > > > Doesn't mean much. One's own words describe only one's own self. > > > > You have the gall to talk about "belittling" people? > > > > My irony meter just exploded. > > Really? So challenging your BS is belittlement? How about excessive > name calling? How about expecting people to recognize you as some sort > of authority figure? Just like recognizing you as qualified to pontificate on the area of materials science? Oops, the new meter just pegged.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 12 Mar 2010 09:42 On Mar 11, 9:37 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > In article <MPG.260364dc83a10b49989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > In article <wclark2-4E7388.20251711032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > state.edu>, wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > In article <MPG.260341b497ec20de989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > In article <pi2ip55ht4biur73nmak9plni9g6n6r...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > Common sense just flies right past your teeny little brain Bert. > > > > > > We don't want to read anyone's slurs about how another's family is > > > > > cared for, and using that to push your political agenda. > > > > > Clark using his family to push his political agenda is ok, however, when > > > > someone calls him on it you jump all over them for pushing a political > > > > agenda. Right Bobby, your hypocrisy and duplicity shines through again. > > > > No, I did not. I stated the facts of the case plain and simple, for > > > intelligent people to consider. Obviously you are excluded from that > > > group. It is you and Dino who have got your political knickers in a > > > twist trying to discredit it for your own bigoted purposes. > > > You tried to push the NHS and your families experiences with it as a > > model and it was thrown back in your face. > > BS. I said what my family's experience was with the NHS, and numbnuts > like you, with absolutely zero data or knowledge to call on, just HAD to > try to shoot it down, because it gives the lie to your bigoted little > myth about health care. > > Sorry, you lose again. And what you proved is that the NHS is a system that gives some low level of care to ordinary people and allows for a much higher level of care for the elite. A typical progressivist system. A few people win, and the vast majority lose. You said it yourself, people who can afford it can get private care, but everyone else is stuck with the NHS, which gobbles up all their health care money and gives them, well, the NHS!
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 09:44 In article <b05212db-eb72-4a23-be9b-52e069d1456a(a)v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 4:33�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 11, 4:12�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:52�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide > > > > > quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > > > > > No problem! > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > muscle cells. > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > > > not all cases! > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > don't work). > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every > > day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time. > > You asked! I would never have made such a post unsolicited. I wasted 5 > minutes, a nice break while grading papers. Mid term grades are due > today! Actually, I didn't ask. You just spewed out this regurgitated nonsense on your own.
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 09:44 In article <69e37165-4788-4bc0-a4f1-e7aeadd1086a(a)v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:31�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > wrote: > > On Mar 11, 4:33�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:12�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:52�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide > > > > > > quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't > > > > > already. > > > > > > No problem! > > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > > muscle cells. > > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD > > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > > > > not all cases! > > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > > don't work). > > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > > I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every > > > day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time. > > > > You asked! I would never have made such a post unsolicited. I wasted 5 > > minutes, a nice break while grading papers. Mid term grades are due > > today!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > I did not ask. And your only purpose in posting this was to try to > impress people with your erudition. You failed. Amen.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 12 Mar 2010 09:44
On Mar 12, 9:35 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:31 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:33 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 4:12 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:52 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > > > > > No problem! > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > > muscle cells. > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD > > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > > > > not all cases! > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > > don't work). > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every > > > day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time. > > > You asked! I would never have made such a post unsolicited. I wasted 5 > > minutes, a nice break while grading papers. Mid term grades are due > > today!- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > I did not ask. And your only purpose in posting this was to try to > impress people with your erudition. You failed. Not trying to impress anyone. I could care less what you think. You made the false accusation that I made some sort of lecture on ALS, which I had not. I said I would be perfectly willing to do so if asked, and you said go ahead. IMHO you asked, I answered and your post here is a lie! |