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From: John B. on 12 Mar 2010 10:20 On Mar 12, 9:44 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:35 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 12, 9:31 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 4:33 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:12 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:52 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > > > > > > No problem! > > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > > > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > > > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > > > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > > > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > > > muscle cells. > > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency.. SOD > > > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > > > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > > > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > > > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > > > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > > > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > > > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > > > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > > > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > > > > > not all cases! > > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > > > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > > > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > > > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > > > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > > > don't work). > > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > > > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > > > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > > > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > > > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > > > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > > > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > > > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > > > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > > I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every > > > > day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time. > > > > You asked! I would never have made such a post unsolicited. I wasted 5 > > > minutes, a nice break while grading papers. Mid term grades are due > > > today!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > I did not ask. And your only purpose in posting this was to try to > > impress people with your erudition. You failed. > > Not trying to impress anyone. I could care less what you think. You > made the false accusation that I made some sort of lecture on ALS, > which I had not. I said I would be perfectly willing to do so if > asked, and you said go ahead. IMHO you asked, I answered and your post > here is a lie!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Actually, I said, "go ahead and make a fool of yourself" and you responded, "No problem!"
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 10:21 In article <b89300ab-ee31-4d14-995d-da483b5baf39(a)e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:42�am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > state.edu> wrote: > > In article > > <cca963db-2c95-4d56-88f7-6e352023c...(a)e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 12, 8:26 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > In article > > > > <3694bdf9-f055-4f76-8eaa-2e390eb63...(a)g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 1:56 pm, "Moderate" <no spam @no mail.com> wrote: > > > > > > "MNMikeW" <MNMiik...(a)aol.com> wrote in message > > > > > > > >news:7vsl35Fbm3U1(a)mid.individual.net... > > > > > > > > > "BAR" <sc...(a)you.com> wrote in message > > > > > > >news:MPG.2602bfb33b80b97b989cd0(a)news.giganews.com... > > > > > > >> In article <clark-31F53B.08321411032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > > > > >> state.edu>, cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > > > > > >>> Out there in public for anyone to look at. > > > > > > > > >> Where is the link? > > > > > > > > > Clark has something to hide, hence no link. > > > > > > > > His MO is to accuse people of the things he is doing. This comes as > > > > > > no > > > > > > surprise. > > > > > > > In science, the little people always belittle their colleagues. We > > > > > have a lot of people who get some job by earning gold stars in the > > > > > classroom, but when it comes to actually producing real science, they > > > > > just don't have it, and so they justify themselves through the > > > > > belittlement of others. We have seen it a couple of times here on > > > > > RSG. > > > > > Doesn't mean much. One's own words describe only one's own self. > > > > > > You have the gall to talk about "belittling" people? > > > > > > My irony meter just exploded. > > > > > Really? So challenging your BS is belittlement? How about excessive > > > name calling? How about expecting people to recognize you as some sort > > > of authority figure? > > > > Just like recognizing you as qualified to pontificate on the area of > > materials science? > > > > Oops, the new meter just pegged. > > I never said that. The only one who pontificates on materials science > here is you, an X-Ray crystallograph operator. I just said that I have > attended materials science conferences and published in the area, > nothing more. It is you who had to blowhard and blow that factual > statement out of proportion. Once again, your ignorance astounds. Even supposing that there was such a thing as an "x-ray crystallograph" to operate (which there is not), I certainly do not operate one, or anything like it. So you are 0 for 2 on that score. As per usual. And you pretend to know anything about materials science? What a joke. Maybe you should go back an read Callister before you embarrass yourself even more.
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 10:23 In article <552683d7-7d33-417b-9b33-c2b1acb53601(a)33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 9:37�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > wrote: > > In article <MPG.260364dc83a10b49989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > > > > > �BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > In article <wclark2-4E7388.20251711032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > state.edu>, wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > > > In article <MPG.260341b497ec20de989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > �BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > In article <pi2ip55ht4biur73nmak9plni9g6n6r...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > Common sense just flies right past your �teeny little brain Bert. > > > > > > > > We don't want to read �anyone's slurs about how another's �family > > > > > > is > > > > > > cared for, and using that to push your political agenda. > > > > > > > Clark using his family to push his political agenda is ok, however, > > > > > when > > > > > someone calls him on it you jump all over them for pushing a > > > > > political > > > > > agenda. Right Bobby, your hypocrisy and duplicity shines through > > > > > again. > > > > > > No, I did not. I stated the facts of the case plain and simple, for > > > > intelligent people to consider. Obviously you are excluded from that > > > > group. It is you and Dino who have got your political knickers in a > > > > twist trying to discredit it for your own bigoted purposes. > > > > > You tried to push the NHS and your families experiences with it as a > > > model and it was thrown back in your face. > > > > BS. I said what my family's experience was with the NHS, and numbnuts > > like you, with absolutely zero data or knowledge to call on, just HAD to > > try to shoot it down, because it gives the lie to your bigoted little > > myth about health care. > > > > Sorry, you lose again. > > And what you proved is that the NHS is a system that gives some low > level of care to ordinary people and allows for a much higher level of > care for the elite. A typical progressivist system. A few people win, > and the vast majority lose. You said it yourself, people who can > afford it can get private care, but everyone else is stuck with the > NHS, which gobbles up all their health care money and gives them, > well, the NHS! And what you have proved is that you know nothing about the NHS, nor about its "level of care". You have also reinforced your status as a bigoted zealot, to whom facts, truth, and decency are all disposable at the altar of your prejudice.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 12 Mar 2010 12:38 On Mar 12, 10:20 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:44 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > wrote: > > > > > On Mar 12, 9:35 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 12, 9:31 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:33 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:12 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:52 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard..com> > > > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > > > > > > > No problem! > > > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > > > > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > > > > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > > > > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > > > > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > > > > muscle cells. > > > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD > > > > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > > > > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > > > > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > > > > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > > > > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > > > > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > > > > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > > > > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > > > > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > > > > > > not all cases! > > > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > > > > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > > > > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > > > > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > > > > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > > > > don't work). > > > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > > > > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > > > > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do.. The > > > > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > > > > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > > > > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > > > > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > > > > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > > > > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > > > I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every > > > > > day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time. > > > > > You asked! I would never have made such a post unsolicited. I wasted 5 > > > > minutes, a nice break while grading papers. Mid term grades are due > > > > today!- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > I did not ask. And your only purpose in posting this was to try to > > > impress people with your erudition. You failed. > > > Not trying to impress anyone. I could care less what you think. You > > made the false accusation that I made some sort of lecture on ALS, > > which I had not. I said I would be perfectly willing to do so if > > asked, and you said go ahead. IMHO you asked, I answered and your post > > here is a lie!- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Actually, I said, "go ahead and make a fool of yourself" and you > responded, "No problem!" That's a pretty good one...but your reply was "I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every day for 9 years." so my foolishness is yours! ....and FWIW, every moment we spend posting to this or any such board is a complete waste of time!
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 12 Mar 2010 12:39
On Mar 12, 9:51 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- state.edu> wrote: > In article > <2f91b389-c7f8-4667-9fce-1ce513317...(a)e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > On Mar 11, 8:34 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > wrote: > > > In article > > > <231c5512-3948-4533-bcb4-14ceaa115...(a)o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 9:13 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 7:36 am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > In article <01bfp5lrgg2sdmnki7ns3htvo1hoaoc...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:42 -0500, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >In article <i3jcp5dsccn4ake2u7vil3j2bqiicpg...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > > > >bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > >> You and Rob should hope that nothing like what Clark's, or John > > > > > > > >> B's > > > > > > > >> families experienced will never happen to yours. If it did I > > > > > > > >> doubt > > > > > > > >> that he would make political use of it here. > > > > > > > > >Let's see, undiagnosed esophageal cancer, Colon cancer, Lymphoma, > > > > > > > >Breast > > > > > > > >cancer requiring a radical bi-lateral mastectomy. And we, my > > > > > > > >sisters > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > >I, all have the genes that produce blood clots, got that from both > > > > > > > >parents. And this is just my parents and siblings. If you want to > > > > > > > >talk > > > > > > > >about Alzheimer's and the devastating effects that has on people > > > > > > > >lets > > > > > > > >get started. > > > > > > > > No you idiot, let's NOT get started. I guarantee you that neither > > > > > > > Clark nor John wilt make political hay out of your family's > > > > > > > problems, > > > > > > > nor be callous enough to suggest that you may have made mistakes in > > > > > > > their treatment. > > > > > > > > >Everyone's families experience hardships and setbacks. It's how > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > >choose to deal with them that is at issue. Singling out a specific > > > > > > > >illness or diseases is just the desire of someone to sit on the > > > > > > > >pity- > > > > > > > >potty for a while. > > > > > > > > Have you no shame???? Leave remarks about family out of these > > > > > > > posts. > > > > > > > Stop whining. > > > > > > > Clark was using his father's situation to show how good the NHS > > > > > > system > > > > > > in the UK is and he and you are upset that some of us didn't just sit > > > > > > around and keep our mouths shut. If you are going to bring your > > > > > > family > > > > > > in to support your argument, as Clark did, then you had better have > > > > > > the > > > > > > constitutional fortitude to take some heat on the issue.- Hide quoted > > > > > > text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > I'm sure both Bill and I would be happy to take heat from someone with > > > > > something intelligent to say. What we got was total bullshit from an > > > > > ignoramus who thought he could educate us about a disease that killed > > > > > both our parents. > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know! > > > > No, you can't. You can run off to Wikepedia and try to palm off a cut > > > and paste job as yours, but we can all see through that BS. Besides, > > > it's plagiarism, and I am sure someone as high minded and virtuous as > > > yourself wouldn't stoop to it. > > > > I lived with this disease for three years, educated my self on its > > > speculated causes and avenues of research, and worked with a senior > > > faculty member in the medical school who has a chair partly endowed to > > > work on treatments and cures for ALS. I have forgotten more about this > > > disease than you will ever know. In the meantime, I recommend a freshman > > > undergraduate materials science textbook, Callister's "Materials Science > > > and Engineering" that might at least make you look even remotely > > > cognizant with materials science. > > > Can't see that the materials science book you suggest would have mush > > to say about genetic diseases, which is the issue here. > > No, the issue is that you would be better employed to actually try to > learn something about an area you claim expertise in, and a freshman > level materials text should be closer to your speed than this ALS cut > and paste. Well, as you clearly think a materials science textbook will enlighten people on genetic diseases, I can now more fully understand your loony posting here! |