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From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 13:57 In article <017b4706-58f9-4f8f-b0d2-1cd8a7169dcc(a)j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:44�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > wrote: > > On Mar 12, 9:35�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 12, 9:31�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:33�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:12�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:52�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- > > > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't > > > > > > > already. > > > > > > > > No problem! > > > > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at > > > > > > least > > > > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we > > > > > > have > > > > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated > > > > > > with > > > > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative > > > > > > damage > > > > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > > > > muscle cells. > > > > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. > > > > > > SOD > > > > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your > > > > > > cells > > > > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and > > > > > > molecules > > > > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various > > > > > > reasons, > > > > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. > > > > > > Classic > > > > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. > > > > > > People > > > > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form > > > > > > of > > > > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage > > > > > > accumulates > > > > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble > > > > > > up > > > > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most > > > > > > if > > > > > > not all cases! > > > > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage > > > > > > from > > > > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more > > > > > > metabolically > > > > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do > > > > > > things > > > > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death > > > > > > for > > > > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > > > > don't work). > > > > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative > > > > > > damage > > > > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any > > > > > > presumed > > > > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. > > > > > > The > > > > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease > > > > > > in > > > > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking > > > > > > in > > > > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there > > > > > > called > > > > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British > > > > > > book > > > > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which > > > > > > excludes > > > > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > > > > I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease > > > > > every > > > > > day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time. > > > > > > You asked! I would never have made such a post unsolicited. I wasted 5 > > > > minutes, a nice break while grading papers. Mid term grades are due > > > > today!- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > I did not ask. And your only purpose in posting this was to try to > > > impress people with your erudition. You failed. > > > > Not trying to impress anyone. I could care less what you think. You > > made the false accusation that I made some sort of lecture on ALS, > > which I had not. I said I would be perfectly willing to do so if > > asked, and you said go ahead. IMHO you asked, I answered and your post > > here is a lie!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > Actually, I said, "go ahead and make a fool of yourself" and you > responded, "No problem!" I think he succeeded admirably!
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 13:59 In article <754b084d-132e-4b74-bd32-f5b7a630daf7(a)q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:51�am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > state.edu> wrote: > > In article > > <2f91b389-c7f8-4667-9fce-1ce513317...(a)e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 8:34�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > > > wrote: > > > > In article > > > > <231c5512-3948-4533-bcb4-14ceaa115...(a)o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 9:13�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 7:36�am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article <01bfp5lrgg2sdmnki7ns3htvo1hoaoc...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:42 -0500, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >In article <i3jcp5dsccn4ake2u7vil3j2bqiicpg...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > > > > >bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > > > >> You and Rob should hope that nothing like what Clark's, or > > > > > > > > >> John > > > > > > > > >> B's > > > > > > > > >> families experienced will never happen to yours. �If it did > > > > > > > > >> I > > > > > > > > >> doubt > > > > > > > > >> that he would make political use of it here. > > > > > > > > > > >Let's see, undiagnosed esophageal cancer, Colon cancer, > > > > > > > > >Lymphoma, > > > > > > > > >Breast > > > > > > > > >cancer requiring a radical bi-lateral mastectomy. And we, my > > > > > > > > >sisters > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >I, all have the genes that produce blood clots, got that from > > > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > >parents. �And this is just my parents and siblings. If you > > > > > > > > >want to > > > > > > > > >talk > > > > > > > > >about Alzheimer's and the devastating effects that has on > > > > > > > > >people > > > > > > > > >lets > > > > > > > > >get started. > > > > > > > > > > No you idiot, let's NOT get started. �I guarantee you that > > > > > > > > neither > > > > > > > > Clark nor John wilt make political hay out of your family's > > > > > > > > problems, > > > > > > > > nor be callous enough to suggest that you may have made > > > > > > > > mistakes in > > > > > > > > their treatment. > > > > > > > > > > >Everyone's families experience hardships and setbacks. It's > > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > >choose to deal with them that is at issue. Singling out a > > > > > > > > >specific > > > > > > > > >illness or diseases is just the desire of someone to sit on > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > >pity- > > > > > > > > >potty for a while. > > > > > > > > > > Have you no shame???? �Leave remarks about family out of these > > > > > > > > posts. > > > > > > > > > Stop whining. > > > > > > > > > Clark was using his father's situation to show how good the NHS > > > > > > > system > > > > > > > in the UK is and he and you are upset that some of us didn't just > > > > > > > sit > > > > > > > around and keep our mouths shut. If you are going to bring your > > > > > > > family > > > > > > > in to support your argument, as Clark did, then you had better > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > constitutional fortitude to take some heat on the issue.- Hide > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > I'm sure both Bill and I would be happy to take heat from someone > > > > > > with > > > > > > something intelligent to say. What we got was total bullshit from > > > > > > an > > > > > > ignoramus who thought he could educate us about a disease that > > > > > > killed > > > > > > both our parents. > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know! > > > > > > No, you can't. You can run off to Wikepedia and try to palm off a cut > > > > and paste job as yours, but we can all see through that BS. Besides, > > > > it's plagiarism, and I am sure someone as high minded and virtuous as > > > > yourself wouldn't stoop to it. > > > > > > I lived with this disease for three years, educated my self on its > > > > speculated causes and avenues of research, and worked with a senior > > > > faculty member in the medical school who has a chair partly endowed to > > > > work on treatments and cures for ALS. I have forgotten more about this > > > > disease than you will ever know. In the meantime, I recommend a > > > > freshman > > > > undergraduate materials science textbook, Callister's "Materials > > > > Science > > > > and Engineering" that might at least make you look even remotely > > > > cognizant with materials science. > > > > > Can't see that the materials science book you suggest would have mush > > > to say about genetic diseases, which is the issue here. > > > > No, the issue is that you would be better employed to actually try to > > learn something about an area you claim expertise in, and a freshman > > level materials text should be closer to your speed than this ALS cut > > and paste. > > Well, as you clearly think a materials science textbook will enlighten > people on genetic diseases, I can now more fully understand your loony > posting here! No, I was suggesting that you should learn to walk before you run, and a freshman materials science text would make a good start. Clearly even simple English comprehension is beyond you, so maybe Callister is, too.
From: BAR on 12 Mar 2010 16:07 In article <clark-2953FD.09494312032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > In article <MPG.26040e4b6362a0f0989cd9(a)news.giganews.com>, > BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > > > In article <clark-01C165.08274512032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > > > In article <MPG.2603fe1645d1e633989cd7(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > In article <wclark2-4766D1.20413011032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > > state.edu>, wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > > There we go - the plagiarized cut and paste we all expected. > > > > > > > > We learned it from you, the master of unattributed cut and pastes from > > > > Wikipedia. > > > > > > Right. Keep it up, Bertie. Surely someone will side with you. > > > > Do you remember when you used Puerto Rico as an example of universal > > health care? You did a cut and paste from Wikipedia without attribution. > > > > Google is not your friend. > > No, I don't :-) Your smiley can't assuage your disgusting, unethical and severely integrity lacking behavior.
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 16:25 In article <MPG.2604773094e1aef0989cdb(a)news.giganews.com>, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > In article <clark-2953FD.09494312032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > In article <MPG.26040e4b6362a0f0989cd9(a)news.giganews.com>, > > BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > In article <clark-01C165.08274512032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > > > > > In article <MPG.2603fe1645d1e633989cd7(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article <wclark2-4766D1.20413011032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > > > state.edu>, wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > > > There we go - the plagiarized cut and paste we all expected. > > > > > > > > > > We learned it from you, the master of unattributed cut and pastes > > > > > from > > > > > Wikipedia. > > > > > > > > Right. Keep it up, Bertie. Surely someone will side with you. > > > > > > Do you remember when you used Puerto Rico as an example of universal > > > health care? You did a cut and paste from Wikipedia without attribution. > > > > > > Google is not your friend. > > > > No, I don't :-) > > Your smiley can't assuage your disgusting, unethical and severely > integrity lacking behavior. Oh, boo, hoo, Bertie. Your righteous indignation reeks of your utter hypocrisy. Not to mention your problems with the English language - "severely integrity lacking", indeed.
From: John B. on 12 Mar 2010 21:31
On Mar 12, 4:07 pm, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > In article <clark-2953FD.09494312032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > state.edu>, cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > > > > In article <MPG.26040e4b6362a0f0989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > In article <clark-01C165.08274512032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > state.edu>, cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > > In article <MPG.2603fe1645d1e633989...(a)news.giganews.com>, > > > > BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > In article <wclark2-4766D1.20413011032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > > > state.edu>, wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > > > There we go - the plagiarized cut and paste we all expected. > > > > > > We learned it from you, the master of unattributed cut and pastes from > > > > > Wikipedia. > > > > > Right. Keep it up, Bertie. Surely someone will side with you. > > > > Do you remember when you used Puerto Rico as an example of universal > > > health care? You did a cut and paste from Wikipedia without attribution. > > > > Google is not your friend. > > > No, I don't :-) > > Your smiley can't assuage your disgusting, unethical and severely > integrity lacking behavior. And your point is? |