health care
in [Golf]
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From: assimilate on 21 Feb 2010 00:55 On 20-Feb-2010, Carbon <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> The fact that other OECD countries are not having a civil war about > >> health care the way we are kind of suggests that they don't think > >> they've jumped off a bridge. > > > > What they think about their situation is irrelevant. > > That's insane, a Bertism. Please tell me how the Eurpean's opinion of anything is relevant to our healthcare debate. -- bill-o
From: assimilate on 21 Feb 2010 01:00 On 20-Feb-2010, Carbon <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > The system absolutely needs an engine replacement if guys like him are > falling through the cracks. Even if he survives he will be dead broke > and won't be able to get insurance because of his now pre-existing > condition. He's a stand-up guy and he's fucked. It's not right. Your premise, that some "reformed" system of the future could prevent such things is false. There isn't a system anywhere that will catch everyone. -- bill-o
From: assimilate on 21 Feb 2010 01:02 On 20-Feb-2010, Carbon <nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> Year in and year out, Americans pay more for healthcare per capita > >> than citizens of any other first world country, thanks in no small > >> part to a massive bureaucracy designed to weed out the unentitled. > >> The joke is that it costs more to run than just giving healthcare to > >> the poor to start with. Like the war on drugs, the war on healthcare > >> is an ill-considered policy that has always done much more harm than > >> good. > > > > But there are lots of people who are willing to pay the costs of these > > two battles, even without any hope of success. It is the Righteous > > way. > > > > Others are willing to pay for a similar losing war against obesity. > > Spend the money and ignore the results. > > I guess it must be freeing to allow all of your decisions to be made > based on some canned ideology or other. But where money and lives are > involved, I will take reason over misguided righteousness any day. What you call reason smells of ideology to me. -- bill-o
From: BAR on 21 Feb 2010 07:44 In article <4b801ced$0$4882$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > > On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:57:59 -0500, BAR wrote: > > In article <4b800fe6$0$4861$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, > > nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > >> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:25:27 -0500, BAR wrote: > >> > >>> I am horrified that anyone gets anything for free except the air > >>> they breath. The only way someone gets something for free is that > >>> something has to be taken from someone else. > >> > >> You fool, you're already paying for them in higher insurance > >> premiums. > > > > And you believe that giving them free health care, which they already > > have, is going to change what I am paying? You are the fool. > > > > What I want is for them to get jobs and pay for their own health care. > > > > This will cause my health care costs to go down. > > > > There is a parallel. Those who receive free health care are like > > shoplifters. They cause the price of all of the other good to rise. > > Stop the shoplifting and the prices go down. > > > > What are shoplifters prosecuted for stealing and people stealing > > health care services not prosecuted? > > Here's a parallel that makes sense. The war on healthcare is a lot like > the so-called war on drugs. The US has spent trillions of dollars over > the years incarcerating a higher percentage of its population than any > other first world country. And for what? For a drug problem is at least > as bad here as in countries like Denmark, where you can get pretty much > any drug you want without fear of going to jail. The whole thing is a > ridiculous waste of money and has been for the past 40 years at least. > > Year in and year out, Americans pay more for healthcare per capita than > citizens of any other first world country, thanks in no small part to a > massive bureaucracy designed to weed out the unentitled. The joke is > that it costs more to run than just giving healthcare to the poor to > start with. Like the war on drugs, the war on healthcare is an > ill-considered policy that has always done much more harm than good. Thank you comrade Carbon.
From: BAR on 21 Feb 2010 08:15
In article <4b802399$0$4892$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>, nobrac(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says... > I have lots of skin in the game. I pay taxes every year, lots of them. I > pay very high healthcare premiums. I am getting very little in exchange. You are not bound by all of the obligations of citizenship. Paying taxes is not fully invested. > I work in IT. Like a lot of businesses, my company has shed a percentage > of its permanent workforce and any new hires are brought on as > contractors. You would have liked this one fellow. He kept telling me > how the US healthcare system is the best one in the world, even though > as a contractor he had no benefits. He had a cyst appear on his stomach. > It got to the point where he couldn't ignore it and he had to get dug > out, on his lunch hour, as an outpatient. I work in IT too. We have off-shored many jobs in both Engineering and IT. We have also out-sources many jobs. When we are staffing a new program or project it always starts with getting head from our out- source partners, then our off-shore sites and then finally the US. Your company is not special. > It turns out he has cancer. I saw him the other day. All his hair has > fallen out and he has big bags under his eyes. I assume he's getting > chemo somehow. If he does survive I imagine he will lose everything he > owns. I don't know the particulars about how his healthcare coverage > lapsed, but I do know he was laid off from his previous job and it took > him a long time to find a new one. He has kids to look after. I assume > he decided that paying the mortgage and putting food on the table was > more important than health insurance. In 1983 I had the opportunity to be a "contractor" and again in 1990 and again in 2002. Washington DC thrives on government contracting and they also staff their projects by 1099 employment. The problem here is that you get hired for the project and when the project is completed you get let go unless you are one of the high A category people, then they will put you on the bench until the next contract comes in. The nasty little secret is that they use the competencies and experience of the people on contract A to win contract B. Then when they win contract B they hire all new people at lower costs than the people working on contract A. Getting back to me, in 1983 I was offered a contracting position at $25 an hour, in 1990 I was offered a contracting position at $65 an hour and in 2002 I had several offers for jobs from $100 to $200 per hour. I refused all of them I could have made a fortune. But, there was no stability, there were no benefits and each day could be your last day of employment with that employer. The only time I would consider a contract position is if my wife had a permanent, so to speak, position with full benefits. I did take a short term, 2 month, contracting position in 2002. The way I figured it out was I took the fully burdened cost components of an FTE and figured my hourly rate from that. This accounted for my maximum contribution to an IRA, the fully 16 or so percent for FICA and Medicare, the cost of medical insurance premiums. And, on and on and on.... > This guy is not some permanently unemployed loser. He is a competent IT > professional. But there is a recession on and he couldn't find work. It > seems pretty obvious to me that if he had access to reasonable > healthcare he would have been able to go to the doctor when the symptoms > first appeared. It surely would have been cheaper to treat then as well. > There would be one less medical bankruptcy. Our premiums would be lower. Did you ask him why ignored the cyst? Being in a field where problems can go from very simple to full scale catastrophe quickly, I would put the onus on your friend for his medical problems. > Bert, this guy could be you. It could be one of your friends. The > current system is unjust. Sure, it could be anyone. But, I still don't see the solution being Universal Health Care. |