health care
in [Golf]
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From: John B. on 22 Feb 2010 11:18 On Feb 22, 9:43 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 21, 4:38 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The point would be the > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross overbilling an everyday > > > > >>>> event. > > > > > >>> Stop whining. > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all you ideologues, huh? > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal Healthcare. > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal healthcare that has > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United States. Go ahead, > > > > we'll wait. > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those countries. In the > > > US people can choose from a free market. > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance. They can shop > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too. > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want. > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have the costs > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose not to pay > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. They'll pay > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people like you > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth of > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of the govt.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous luxuries as housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start buying food and clothing!
From: John B. on 22 Feb 2010 11:20 On Feb 22, 9:46 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 21, 4:48 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:45 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Feb 20, 10:39 am, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:03:44 -0500, BAR wrote: > > > > > In article <hvCfn.818$BD2....(a)newsfe14.iad>, dontwr...(a)gmail.com > > > > > says... > > > > > >> Oh yeah ... and I suppose "manifest destiny" was an excuse for > > > > >> imperialism. I'm sure the Mexicans weren't bothered at all by the > > > > >> theft of Texas, and how much other land? > > > > > > War or the threat of war has determined the political and national > > > > > boundaries of kingdoms and countries. > > > > > > One of the penalties of losing armed conflict is that your military > > > > > will may be destroyed and you may lose some or all of your territory. > > > > > Ok, here's a possible future scenario. The US dollar continues to > > > > decline until it becomes nearly worthless in international trade. Cut > > > > off from world markets, the economy collapses. Unemployment skyrockets. > > > > There is widespread civil unrest. Foreign interests come in with their > > > > stronger currencies and buy up everything worth having. At that point > > > > the country will have been effectively taken over by foreign interests. > > > > > Say this actually happens. Will you still be sharing your smug little > > > > stories about the survival of the fittest? What if you're the one on the > > > > losing end? > > > > This will happen at some point, as it did the the UK in the early to > > > mid 20th century. If Americans continue to spend so excessively, it > > > will happen a lot sooner. As China, India, Brazil and others continue > > > to grow, they will have more and more fiscal power. As we fall into > > > the category of self absorbed, seal entitled deadbeats we will > > > decline. There is no free health care, no free housing and no free > > > lunch. FWIW, IMHO western Europe is totally done, but they don't know > > > it yet. They have no capacity to recover from this crisis. They > > > consume much and produce next to nothing. > > > If that is so, then why does the U.S. have a $60.5 billion trade > > deficit with the EU? > > Because we consume even more, but Americans are still very productive, > that minority that do actually work full time anyways. However the EU > produces nothing we really need, and they have no resources. When > current currencies become diluted by inflation, they will have nothing > to fall back on.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Americans who work full-time are in the minority? That's alarming.
From: John B. on 22 Feb 2010 11:22 On Feb 22, 9:55 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > On Feb 21, 6:46 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 6:36 pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > > > > On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:04:02 -0600, bkni...(a)conramp.net wrote: > > > >>>What would be best would be for the money to come out of sales taxes. > > > >>>That way even the slackers have to participate. > > > > >>There are a lot of good reasons to replace income tax with sales tax. > > > > >Name them. > > > > Here's three. > > > > A subsidiary company owned by a foreign company can't benefit its > > > owner by lowering its profit (by being charged more by the parent > > > company for products). > > > > Sales value is simple and direct. Net profits is not. We spend a > > > lot on lawyers to define business expenses to lower taxes. > > > > Progressive taxes is implemented by excluding food and medicine, not > > > by income bracketing. > > > > -- > > > "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, > > > than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace > > > to the legislature, and not to the executive department." > > > > - James Madison > > > Excluding food and medicine does not make for a progressive tax. > > Nothing progressive at all about income tax. Rich people do not rely > on "income" as much as poor and middle class people do.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Rich people pay a higher proportion of their income in taxes than poor people do. That is the definition of a progressive tax code.
From: John B. on 22 Feb 2010 11:26 On Feb 22, 10:52 am, assimil...(a)borg.org wrote: > On 22-Feb-2010, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > What would be best would be for the money to come out of sales taxes. > > > > That way even the slackers have to participate. > > > > I think slackers should get hit hard with a tax penalty.....$1500 > > > minimum. > > > Why should you or I pay for their irresponsibility? > > > > -Greg > > And who is to decide who's a slacker and who isn't? > > the market > > -- > bill-o So, the government should slap a punitive tax of $1500 or more on "slackers," who would be indentified as such by "the market." Sure, that makes perfect sense.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 22 Feb 2010 11:33
On Feb 22, 1:33 am, Jim Lovejoy <nos...(a)devnull.spam> wrote: > "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote innews:28c504ae-1d6d-4f71-ac8a-2d4a36dcfada(a)l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com: > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:45 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > >> On Feb 20, 10:39 am, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > >> > On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:03:44 -0500, BAR wrote: > >> > > In article <hvCfn.818$BD2....(a)newsfe14.iad>, dontwr...(a)gmail.com > >> > > says... > > >> > >> Oh yeah ... and I suppose "manifest destiny" was an excuse for > >> > >> imperialism. I'm sure the Mexicans weren't bothered at all by > >> > >> the theft of Texas, and how much other land? > > >> > > War or the threat of war has determined the political and > >> > > national boundaries of kingdoms and countries. > > >> > > One of the penalties of losing armed conflict is that your > >> > > military will may be destroyed and you may lose some or all of > >> > > your territory. > > >> > Ok, here's a possible future scenario. The US dollar continues to > >> > decline until it becomes nearly worthless in international trade. > >> > Cut off from world markets, the economy collapses. Unemployment > >> > skyrockets. There is widespread civil unrest. Foreign interests > >> > come in with their stronger currencies and buy up everything worth > >> > having. At that point the country will have been effectively taken > >> > over by foreign interests. > > >> > Say this actually happens. Will you still be sharing your smug > >> > little stories about the survival of the fittest? What if you're > >> > the one on th > > e > >> > losing end? > > >> This will happen at some point, as it did the the UK in the early to > >> mid 20th century. If Americans continue to spend so excessively, it > >> will happen a lot sooner. As China, India, Brazil and others continue > >> to grow, they will have more and more fiscal power. As we fall into > >> the category of self absorbed, seal entitled deadbeats we will > >> decline. There is no free health care, no free housing and no free > >> lunch. FWIW, IMHO western Europe is totally done, but they don't know > >> it yet. They have no capacity to recover from this crisis. They > >> consume much and produce next to nothing. > > > If that is so, then why does the U.S. have a $60.5 billion trade > > deficit with the EU? > > Because companies in the EU aren't paying thousands a year per employee on > health insurance. > > One of the reasons that the US healthcare system needs to be reformed is > that its destroying our competitiveness. > > Maybe for some things we can't compete with the low wage countries like > China, India, and Indonesia. But there's no reason we can't compete with > Europe, Canada and Japan, except for a disfunctional healthcare system that > ads thousands a year, now approaching a thousand a month to each employee's > labor cost. > > And bad as it is for the competitiveness of large business, what it does to > small business is far worse. A lot of would be entrepreneurs with pre- > existing conditions, don't dare leave the safety of their corporate > healthcare. And others are either taking the risk illness wiping them out, > or starting out with an anchor on their business. > > And what we need is the tinkering type reform we've seen proposed, but a > Canada-like system, paid for with some version of a value-added tax, a tax > that is paid on foreign imports as well as US output. > > Until we radically reform our healthcare, we are going to lose in > competition to countries with healthcare that's not primarily the > employer's expense. Healthcare costs what it costs. How the wealth is apportioned to pay for it isn't going to change that. The problem with progressive types with this sort of thing is they don't understand what wealth is. It's simple though, you produce more than you consume, and that excess is your wealth. Of course what you produce has to have actual value though, and that gets tricky for progressives, as it does with all of us, because the value of things is fluid. You can produce all the steel, for example, you want, but if no one wants to buy it, the steel has no value. Health care can produce wealth, ie when people who want health care are willing to exchange wealth for health care. People go in and buy health care with the wealth they have earned. Health care can consume wealth just as easily though, as when someone "provides" health care, but no real exchange of value takes place. If you simply give someone something, it has no real value. Things only have value when they are earned. I know this is tough for progressives to accept; you have to live off what you earn, and if you consume all that you earn you will have no wealth. Europeans consume far more than they earn. They can live off the backs of Africans and Middle Eastern people for only so long. In the end, if people like Americans, for whatever reason, stop buying things like cars and drugs from them, and Americans can make cars and drugs for themselves, the EU is done, and we are nearing that cliff edge, where Americans will not be able to pay for EU products lie cars and drugs, and when we go over that cliff, the EU is done, and IMHO we will go over that cliff very soon. If places like Africa no longer pony up cheap resources, they won't be able to make the cars anyways. The US has ample resources and a productive labor force. The US also has good relations with places like Mexico; far better than the EU has with places like Algeria and Turkey, and thus can continue to grow and develop through those relations. The US can easily trade with the far east, where it also has far better relations than does the EU. Euros will find themselves 100% under the thumb of the Russians in very short order. Again, JMHO, so we will see. |