From: William Clark on
In article <MPG.25ec3f36a367d11e989c3f(a)news.giganews.com>,
BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote:

> In article <lmp3o5dcc630gnbqemhndem8o57gt8u3mt(a)4ax.com>,
> xsleeper(a)aol.com says...
> >
> > On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:27:38 -0800, Don Kirkman <donsno2(a)charter.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >not is it true that the government *does* take taxes at the
> > >point of a gun--that's as much an exaggeration as that everyone who
> > >donates does it altruistically.
> >
> > It is a bit melodramatic, but if you don't pay your taxes, men with
> > guns come to arrest you. They'll use them if they have to but a more
> > likely scenario is that they lead you away in handcuffs.
>
> If you disagree with them at all and refuse to go with them, they will
> pull out their guns and point them at you in order to get you to comply
> with the governments dictates.

Oh, gosh, and will they take away my teddy bear, too?
From: Dinosaur_Sr on
On Feb 22, 4:45 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <49904568-b75d-48dd-99b5-5bfda8a3a...(a)d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>  Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > On Feb 21, 5:08 pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <1f1f533c-c3d7-457e-afb6-15074fb87...(a)33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > >  Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 19, 8:57 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 19, 7:12 am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > In article <4b7de8c5$0$4967$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> > > > > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>
> > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:30:41 -0500, BAR wrote:
> > > > > > > > In article <4b7dcb52$0$27203$9a6e1...(a)unlimited.newshosting..com>,
> > > > > > > > nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
> > > > > > > >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:24:00 -0800, John B. wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >>> I don't wany my access to all the above to be dependent on my
> > > > > > > >>> employment and how much my employer is willing to spend on
> > > > > > > >>> health
> > > > > > > >>> insurance. If I were to lose my job, I wouldn't be able to
> > > > > > > >>> afford
> > > > > > > >>> the medications I depend on. If I were to sell my house and
> > > > > > > >>> take my
> > > > > > > >>> kids out of college so I could afford to buy my own insurance
> > > > > > > >>> policy, it wouldn't cover my meds because they would be deemed
> > > > > > > >>> to be
> > > > > > > >>> for a pre- existing condition. What's your solution to that,
> > > > > > > >>> Bert?
>
> > > > > > > >> Don't get sick. And if you do, die quickly.
>
> > > > > > > > Access to health care is not dependent upon employment.
>
> > > > > > > > If you were better at negotiating pay with your employer and you
> > > > > > > > did a
> > > > > > > > better job saving money you would have enough money to pay for
> > > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > health care. Instead you have abdicated your personal
> > > > > > > > responsibility
> > > > > > > > to someone else which has made you dependent upon their
> > > > > > > > generosity and
> > > > > > > > goodwill.
>
> > > > > > > > When the teat is taken away you are lost and can't figure out
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > your next meal is coming from.
>
> > > > > > > Thank you, but I've heard all this clueless propaganda before.. I am
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > favor of universal healthcare because it is cheaper and more
> > > > > > > humane. You
> > > > > > > obviously do not know the first thing about it, and yet you are
> > > > > > > positive
> > > > > > > that you're right.
>
> > > > > > If you want Universal Health Care there are many countries around the
> > > > > > world that offer it and there is no one stopping you from emigrating
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > any of them except you.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Every industrialized country on earth offers universal health care
> > > > > except the U.S., yet the U.S. is the only one of them that's embroiled
> > > > > in a debate about health care.
>
> > > > Where has all the innovation and improvement in health care come from
> > > > over this period?
>
> > > Well. let's take one example. Hip surgery; the hip resurfacing
> > > operation, which is now considered the best option, especially for the
> > > young and active, came from the UK.
>
> > > Oops.
>
> > Oh boy! Bone scraping! How innovative! You want to line that one up
> > against all the innovations that came from the US?
>
> Well, we could add to that, but this just shows how chlldishly
> simplistic your postulate was. Where, for example, was the first heart
> transplant performed? Yawn.

If Clark needs a heart transplant, send him to South Africa!
Definitely not the US!

There's another 1 thing to put up against all the things that come out
of the US.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on
On Feb 22, 4:49 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article
> <a2ef6843-e23d-4282-98b3-8bf670aab...(a)g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>  Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> > On Feb 22, 1:51 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 22, 11:37 am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 22, 11:18 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 22, 9:43 am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27 pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The point would
> > > > > > > > > >>>> be the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross overbilling an
> > > > > > > > > >>>> everyday
> > > > > > > > > >>>> event.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining.
>
> > > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all you
> > > > > > > > > >> ideologues, huh?
>
> > > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal Healthcare.
>
> > > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal healthcare
> > > > > > > > > that has
> > > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United States.. Go
> > > > > > > > > ahead,
> > > > > > > > > we'll wait.
>
> > > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those countries. In
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market.
>
> > > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance.  They can shop
> > > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too.
>
> > > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want.
> > > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have the costs
> > > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose not to
> > > > > > pay
> > > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. They'll pay
> > > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people like you
> > > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth of
> > > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of the govt.-
> > > > > > Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous luxuries as
> > > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start buying
> > > > > food and clothing!
>
> > > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive German car
> > > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for health
> > > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses.
>
> > Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter of
> > allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs.
>
> No, because most cities in the US don't have public transport. The likes
> of you and Bertie aren't willing to pay for that either.

Public transport in the US is lacking because they bus kids to school,
and low income people can afford cars. Not much market for the public
transit system in most US locations.
From: John B. on
On Feb 22, 2:24 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
> On Feb 22, 1:51 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 11:37 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 22, 11:18 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 22, 9:43 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The point would be the
> > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross overbilling an everyday
> > > > > > > > >>>> event.
>
> > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining.
>
> > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all you ideologues, huh?
>
> > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal Healthcare..
>
> > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal healthcare that has
> > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United States. Go ahead,
> > > > > > > > we'll wait.
>
> > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those countries.. In the
> > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market.
>
> > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance.  They can shop
> > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too.
>
> > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want.
> > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have the costs
> > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose not to pay
> > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. They'll pay
> > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people like you
> > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth of
> > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of the govt..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous luxuries as
> > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start buying
> > > > food and clothing!
>
> > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive German car
> > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for health
> > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses.
>
> Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter of
> allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So, your view is that health insurance should take precedence over all
other necessities of life -- food, clothing, housing transportation,
etc.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on
On Feb 22, 5:04 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 22, 2:24 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 1:51 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 22, 11:37 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 22, 11:18 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 22, 9:43 am, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The point would be the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross overbilling an everyday
> > > > > > > > > >>>> event.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining.
>
> > > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all you ideologues, huh?
>
> > > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal Healthcare.
>
> > > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal healthcare that has
> > > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United States.. Go ahead,
> > > > > > > > > we'll wait.
>
> > > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those countries. In the
> > > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market.
>
> > > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance.  They can shop
> > > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too.
>
> > > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want.
> > > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have the costs
> > > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose not to pay
> > > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. They'll pay
> > > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people like you
> > > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth of
> > > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of the govt.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous luxuries as
> > > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start buying
> > > > > food and clothing!
>
> > > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive German car
> > > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for health
> > > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses.
>
> > Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter of
> > allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So, your view is that health insurance should take precedence over all
> other necessities of life -- food, clothing, housing transportation,
> etc.

You have to make a choice. There is no limitless supply of goods and
services that can be distributed by government command. IF health care
is a necessity of life, how did humans survive tens of thousands of
years without it?