health care
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From: William Clark on 23 Feb 2010 09:02 In article <cda92484-47c3-4bdd-b95d-06779412b2af(a)c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 22, 5:04�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > On Feb 22, 4:49�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > > > > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > In article > > > <a2ef6843-e23d-4282-98b3-8bf670aab...(a)g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Feb 22, 1:51�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:37�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:18�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 9:43�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16�pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The point > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> be the > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> overbilling an > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everyday > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all you > > > > > > > > > > > >> ideologues, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthcare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal > > > > > > > > > > > healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > that has > > > > > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United > > > > > > > > > > > States. Go > > > > > > > > > > > ahead, > > > > > > > > > > > we'll wait. > > > > > > > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those > > > > > > > > > > countries. In > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market. > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance. �They > > > > > > > > > can shop > > > > > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too. > > > > > > > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want. > > > > > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have the > > > > > > > > costs > > > > > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose not > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > pay > > > > > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. > > > > > > > > They'll pay > > > > > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people > > > > > > > > like you > > > > > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth of > > > > > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of the > > > > > > > > govt.- > > > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous luxuries > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start > > > > > > > buying > > > > > > > food and clothing! > > > > > > > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive German > > > > > > car > > > > > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for health > > > > > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses. > > > > > > Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter of > > > > allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs. > > > > > No, because most cities in the US don't have public transport. The likes > > > of you and Bertie aren't willing to pay for that either. > > > > Public transport in the US is lacking because they bus kids to school, > > and low income people can afford cars. Not much market for the public > > transit system in most US locations.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > Not much market? Are you serious? Have you ever set foot in a major > city? Have you ever used public transportation in NY or DC or > Chicago? 30,000 people commute into Columbus every day down SR 315. I am one of them. Every car on the road has but one occupant, and there is no public transport alternative. That is just stupid.
From: John B. on 23 Feb 2010 12:09 On Feb 23, 9:02 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- state.edu> wrote: > In article > <cda92484-47c3-4bdd-b95d-06779412b...(a)c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, > "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 5:04 pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > On Feb 22, 4:49 pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > In article > > > > <a2ef6843-e23d-4282-98b3-8bf670aab...(a)g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 22, 1:51 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:37 am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:18 am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 9:43 am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27 pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr..com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The point > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> be the > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> overbilling an > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everyday > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all you > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ideologues, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal > > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthcare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal > > > > > > > > > > > > healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > > that has > > > > > > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United > > > > > > > > > > > > States. Go > > > > > > > > > > > > ahead, > > > > > > > > > > > > we'll wait. > > > > > > > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those > > > > > > > > > > > countries. In > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market. > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance. They > > > > > > > > > > can shop > > > > > > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too. > > > > > > > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want. > > > > > > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have the > > > > > > > > > costs > > > > > > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose not > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > pay > > > > > > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. > > > > > > > > > They'll pay > > > > > > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people > > > > > > > > > like you > > > > > > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth of > > > > > > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of the > > > > > > > > > govt.- > > > > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous luxuries > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start > > > > > > > > buying > > > > > > > > food and clothing! > > > > > > > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive German > > > > > > > car > > > > > > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for health > > > > > > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses.. > > > > > > Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter of > > > > > allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs. > > > > > No, because most cities in the US don't have public transport. The likes > > > > of you and Bertie aren't willing to pay for that either. > > > > Public transport in the US is lacking because they bus kids to school, > > > and low income people can afford cars. Not much market for the public > > > transit system in most US locations.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Not much market? Are you serious? Have you ever set foot in a major > > city? Have you ever used public transportation in NY or DC or > > Chicago? > > 30,000 people commute into Columbus every day down SR 315. I am one of > them. Every car on the road has but one occupant, and there is no public > transport alternative. That is just stupid.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I agree, but how many of those 30K people would get out of their cars and get on a bus or train if they had the option? Here in DC, public transportation (Metro) has gotten so expensive that it's cheaper for me to drive to work and pay to park than to drive to a Metro station, pay to park there and take the train into the city. Is that absurd or what?
From: William Clark on 23 Feb 2010 14:05 In article <bc5cece8-8aeb-44e5-b267-ffbbf93b1819(a)g23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 23, 9:02�am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > state.edu> wrote: > > In article > > <cda92484-47c3-4bdd-b95d-06779412b...(a)c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, > > �"John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 5:04�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > On Feb 22, 4:49�pm, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > > > > > state.edu> wrote: > > > > > In article > > > > > <a2ef6843-e23d-4282-98b3-8bf670aab...(a)g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 22, 1:51�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:37�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:18�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 9:43�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 4:38�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 3:27�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 6:16�pm, Carbon > > > > > > > > > > > > <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> point > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> would > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> be the > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> overbilling an > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everyday > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Stop whining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I should just allow myself to be raped like all > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> you > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ideologues, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Better that than I get raped by your Universal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthcare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please find any country on the planet with universal > > > > > > > > > > > > > healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > > > that has > > > > > > > > > > > > > higher per capita healthcare costs than the United > > > > > > > > > > > > > States. Go > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahead, > > > > > > > > > > > > > we'll wait. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The govt dictates costs and service levels in those > > > > > > > > > > > > countries. In > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > US people can choose from a free market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Americans can shop around for health insurance. > > > > > > > > > > > �They > > > > > > > > > > > can shop > > > > > > > > > > > around for Bentleys and Maseratis, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Americans can choose to purchase the health care they want. > > > > > > > > > > Individuals can choose to allocate as they wish, not have > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > costs > > > > > > > > > > forced on them, in advance, by the govt. Some people choose > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > pay > > > > > > > > > > the 10K pa or so health care costs, that's their problem. > > > > > > > > > > They'll pay > > > > > > > > > > that for a car, or a house, but not health care...so people > > > > > > > > > > like you > > > > > > > > > > want to tax people to the extend of 20K pa to get 10k worth > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > services delivered purely to serve the political ends of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > govt.- > > > > > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > Silly Americans, wasting their money on such frivilous > > > > > > > > > luxuries > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > housing and cars. Next thing you know, they'll want to start > > > > > > > > > buying > > > > > > > > > food and clothing! > > > > > > > > > > You can't have everything. You want to drive an expensive > > > > > > > > German > > > > > > > > car > > > > > > > > and live in a big house, and that doesn't leave enough for > > > > > > > > health > > > > > > > > insurance, that's your choice.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > I didn't say anything about expensive German cars or big houses. > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter what kind of car it is. Take the bus. It's a matter > > > > > > of > > > > > > allocating your own personal wealth to serve your own needs. > > > > > > > No, because most cities in the US don't have public transport. The > > > > > likes > > > > > of you and Bertie aren't willing to pay for that either. > > > > > > Public transport in the US is lacking because they bus kids to school, > > > > and low income people can afford cars. Not much market for the public > > > > transit system in most US locations.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > Not much market? Are you serious? Have you ever set foot in a major > > > city? Have you ever used public transportation in NY or DC or > > > Chicago? > > > > 30,000 people commute into Columbus every day down SR 315. I am one of > > them. Every car on the road has but one occupant, and there is no public > > transport alternative. That is just stupid.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > I agree, but how many of those 30K people would get out of their cars > and get on a bus or train if they had the option? Here in DC, public > transportation (Metro) has gotten so expensive that it's cheaper for > me to drive to work and pay to park than to drive to a Metro station, > pay to park there and take the train into the city. Is that absurd or > what? I would for one. In a heartbeat.
From: Don Kirkman on 23 Feb 2010 14:10 On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:11:07 -0500, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: >In article <mub3o51s96r7a7hkq5pq6dcs687sfkrlaq(a)4ax.com>, donsno2 >@charter.net says... >> In an absolute sense, perhaps, but in the real world not so much. Not >> everyone who donates does from the heart or the tax codes wouldn't be >> so full of deductions and special cuts, nor would churches have >> imposed taxes (pew rent and tithes) on their parishioners in former >> times, not is it true that the government *does* take taxes at the >> point of a gun--that's as much an exaggeration as that everyone who >> donates does it altruistically. >The government has enacted laws to collect the taxes by force if you do >not pay them. >> The Founders obviously felt that tax-provided services and >> conveniences (roads, postal services, education, poor houses, >> hospitals) were important to the goal of providing a more perfect >> union. Sorry if you feel otherwise. >How much of your property are you willing to give to the government each >year? I pay my allotted amount, which is none of your business, and I do it willingly because I enjoy roads, parks, hospitals, schools, and other amenities that none but the extremely wealthy are able to provide for themselves. I also willingly help reduce the effect of poverty, social injustices, and plain random events on other members of society. -- Don Kirkman donsno2(a)charter.net
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 23 Feb 2010 16:23
On Feb 22, 5:37 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:53:41 -0800, Dinosaur_Sr wrote: > > On Feb 21, 6:17 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:27:12 -0800, Dinosaur_Sr wrote: > >>> On Feb 18, 6:16 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:18:15 +0000, assimilate wrote: > >>>>> On 17-Feb-2010, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> Obviously, that totally misses the point. The point would be the > >>>>>>>> systemic corruption that makes such gross overbilling an > >>>>>>>> everyday event. > > >>>>>>> Stop whining. > > >>>>>> I should just allow myself to be raped like all you ideologues, > >>>>>> huh? > > >>>>> Better that than I get raped by your Universal Healthcare. > > >>>> Please find any country on the planet with universal healthcare that > >>>> has higher per capita healthcare costs than the United States. Go > >>>> ahead, we'll wait. > > >>> The govt dictates costs and service levels in those countries. In the > >>> US people can choose from a free market. > > >> In a free market there would be competition and therefore prices at > >> least somewhat in line with the cost of production. I hope you're not > >> going to try to argue that either is the case with big healthcare in > >> the US. > > > Moreso than in Canada, where the govt dictates prices. You know, if > > Americans stop paying the bulk of the cost of pharmaceuticals and > > related research, people like Canadians will have to pay more. That is > > an injustice, IMHO, that could be redressed here. Pharmaceutical > > research is declining in at least parts of the US. like say Michigan. > > Given a choice between being "forced" to pay $50, or having the freedom > to choose between $75 and $80, which would you take? Money isn't the only issue, and I would rather pay the 70 or 80 because the 50 from the govt will be for a cut rate service. How much health care costs isn't a big issue to me. |