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From: glfnaz on 23 Aug 2006 23:59 "Dave Clary" <dclary(a)stx.rr.com> wrote in message news:qg8qe29cjd2no9kj64q8tn7opdf83jvc1n(a)4ax.com... > On 23 Aug 2006 20:25:27 -0700, "Birdie Bill" > <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Yes, but... you don't have to swing that way. At my GolfTec lesson >>they showed me a swing of Tiger's at the 3/4 position where the >>shaft is parallel to the shaft address plane. That's what Haney >>teaches, and I guess Tiger has jumped onboard. I'll see if I can >>dig up a photo. > > This is one point in time so you can't tell where the club shaft is > relative to the position at address. But you can see that his left > arm isn't "lifting" above the shoulder plane, and that his hand are > behind him. > > http://davidclary.com/tiger.jpg > > > Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx At address--That shaft was through his belt buckle. See the plane shift?
From: Birdie Bill on 24 Aug 2006 00:30 glfnaz wrote: > "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:1156389927.509662.253510(a)i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > > > glfnaz wrote: > >> "David Laville" <dlaville(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote in message > >> news:r01qe25thr6ngvhm75of60hhilh1vlb1r8(a)4ax.com... > >> > On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:59:39 -0700, "glfnaz" <glfnaz(a)qwesttrash.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >>>>There is no two-plane swing. > >> >>> > >> >>> Yes there is and the majority of tour players use it. The club > >> >>> starts > >> >>> on the plane of the club at address and shifts to a plane that runs > >> >>> through the right shoulder position at the top.> David Laville, > >> >>> G.S.E.M. > >> >>> The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor > >> >>> TB-8982 > >> >> > >> >>I'd like to argue that there is no one plane swing, there is no 2 plane > >> >>swing, there is only a swing that has the club go through *multiple > >> >>planes* > >> >>as it elevates above parallel. > >> > > >> > This is a more precise way of looking at it; The club doesn't swing > >> > on a plane, it swings on more if a curved path as Dr. Mann pointed > >> > out. I agree with him on this because I've analyzed countless swings > >> > when I was learning all this TGM stuff and if you put a dot on the > >> > clubhead frame for frame and then connect the dots they don't form a > >> > straight line, they follow a slight curve. > >> > > >> > Planes are named according to the reference points on which they are > >> > set. As an example, the hands plane would be a plane that was resting > >> > on the hands, a shoulder plane would be a plane resting on the > >> > shoulders. If a player is said to be using a shoulder plane the curve > >> > of the clubs path will pass through the shoulder. If the player is > >> > said to be using an elbow plane the curve of the clubs path will pass > >> > through the elbow. > >> > > >> > So to sum it up, the club follows a path and that path will pass > >> > through a point the plane uses as a reference. > >> > > >> > > >> > David Laville, G.S.E.M. > >> > The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor > >> > TB-8982 > >> > >> I've followed your earlier comments on this as well, then studied the > >> geometry from TGM. > >> In A Nutshell: > >> If the base of the plane is a straight line, then.... > >> Then the higher the arms elevate the club, the shaft * must * become > >> steeper to continue to point to the baseline of the plane. > >> bg > > > > Yes, but... you don't have to swing that way. At my GolfTec lesson > > they showed me a swing of Tiger's at the 3/4 position where the > > shaft is parallel to the shaft address plane. That's what Haney > > teaches, and I guess Tiger has jumped onboard. I'll see if I can > > dig up a photo. > > > > F L A T and off -plane, and Tiger does not swing that way. > Neither does poster boy O'Meara. > Kellie Kehnie comes clos....and where is she today? > I'm not going to argue this to death, but, if the shaft is parallel to > adress at 3/4, it's off plane; and Tiger isn't there. He just isn't. You're > a good guy Bill, but you'll need to show me that for me to believe. > Be well. > bg His old swing wasn't like that, I agree. But I've seen it, I swear. You'd have to look at recent clips. Parallel to the shaft address plane, and only slightly off it. And he wasn't the only pro they showed doing it. I don't have access to their clips, unfortunately, but If I get ambitious, I'll download some swings from the PGA off my DVR, and see what it looks like. Maybe this weekend.
From: Birdie Bill on 24 Aug 2006 00:46 glfnaz wrote: > "Dave Clary" <dclary(a)stx.rr.com> wrote in message > news:qg8qe29cjd2no9kj64q8tn7opdf83jvc1n(a)4ax.com... > > On 23 Aug 2006 20:25:27 -0700, "Birdie Bill" > > <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >>Yes, but... you don't have to swing that way. At my GolfTec lesson > >>they showed me a swing of Tiger's at the 3/4 position where the > >>shaft is parallel to the shaft address plane. That's what Haney > >>teaches, and I guess Tiger has jumped onboard. I'll see if I can > >>dig up a photo. > > > > This is one point in time so you can't tell where the club shaft is > > relative to the position at address. But you can see that his left > > arm isn't "lifting" above the shoulder plane, and that his hand are > > behind him. > > > > http://davidclary.com/tiger.jpg > > > > > > Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx > > At address--That shaft was through his belt buckle. > See the plane shift? No one disputes that the plane shifts near the top. The position I was talking about is earlier, when the left arm is close to being horizontal to the ground.
From: AKA Gray Asphalt 2 on 24 Aug 2006 03:07 "David Laville" <dlaville(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:4jipe25idg0gh668nue8uo28a1qtcimgn4(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:54:03 GMT, "bruce" <buyede(a)shaw.ca> wrote: > >>has anyone changed over from a 2 plane swing to a one plane swing, and if >>so >>how long did it take to change, and what benefits did you notice? Plus >>what >>are some of the negatives do you have about the 1 plane? >> >>I just changed over a week ago, and i love it. > > Give it time. I saw the infomercial and how he wants you to take the > right arm and elbow back. Disaster. > > You'll be back to the two-plane swing. I remember when Natural Golf > came out. Everybody trying it was almost breaking par the first time > they used it (or so they claimed). Funny thing is I can't find anyone > using it anymore. > > > > David Laville, G.S.E.M. > The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor > TB-8982 The guy from the golf channel used to be "natural golf" ... what's his name? Is he still?
From: AKA Gray Asphalt 2 on 24 Aug 2006 03:09
It's more important to seing the grip, isn't it than to worry about the crazy things a clubhead does? When you look at the photos with time lapse photography the clubhead looks like a 4 plane roller coaster. "David Laville" <dlaville(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:u2ipe299rt0at7bt3omuh4pvq3se73g9nm(a)4ax.com... > On 23 Aug 2006 09:39:53 -0700, blakestah(a)gmail.com wrote: > >>There is no two-plane swing. > > Yes there is and the majority of tour players use it. The club starts > on the plane of the club at address and shifts to a plane that runs > through the right shoulder position at the top. > > However I have yet to see anyone use a one-plane swing and not even > Hardy teaches one. What he advocates is a single "plane angle" in > which the club stays parallel to the original plane established at > address but still shifts to another plane. To be a one-plane swing > the player would have to keep the club on the same plane established > at address. > >>There is a swing in which the arms and torso work together naturally, >>formalized earliest and most clearly by Hogan. > > The plane isn't defined by the arms and torso. > >>Then there is a swing in which the arms cross the lines of the torso, >>and a precise >>series of compensations can allow decent shotmaking some of >>the time. > > > > David Laville, G.S.E.M. > The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor > TB-8982 |