From: glfnaz on

"Dave Clary" <dclary(a)stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qg8qe29cjd2no9kj64q8tn7opdf83jvc1n(a)4ax.com...
> On 23 Aug 2006 20:25:27 -0700, "Birdie Bill"
> <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Yes, but... you don't have to swing that way. At my GolfTec lesson
>>they showed me a swing of Tiger's at the 3/4 position where the
>>shaft is parallel to the shaft address plane. That's what Haney
>>teaches, and I guess Tiger has jumped onboard. I'll see if I can
>>dig up a photo.
>
> This is one point in time so you can't tell where the club shaft is
> relative to the position at address. But you can see that his left
> arm isn't "lifting" above the shoulder plane, and that his hand are
> behind him.
>
> http://davidclary.com/tiger.jpg
>
>
> Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx

At address--That shaft was through his belt buckle.
See the plane shift?


From: Birdie Bill on

glfnaz wrote:
> "Birdie Bill" <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1156389927.509662.253510(a)i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > glfnaz wrote:
> >> "David Laville" <dlaville(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >> news:r01qe25thr6ngvhm75of60hhilh1vlb1r8(a)4ax.com...
> >> > On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:59:39 -0700, "glfnaz" <glfnaz(a)qwesttrash.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>>>There is no two-plane swing.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Yes there is and the majority of tour players use it. The club
> >> >>> starts
> >> >>> on the plane of the club at address and shifts to a plane that runs
> >> >>> through the right shoulder position at the top.> David Laville,
> >> >>> G.S.E.M.
> >> >>> The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
> >> >>> TB-8982
> >> >>
> >> >>I'd like to argue that there is no one plane swing, there is no 2 plane
> >> >>swing, there is only a swing that has the club go through *multiple
> >> >>planes*
> >> >>as it elevates above parallel.
> >> >
> >> > This is a more precise way of looking at it; The club doesn't swing
> >> > on a plane, it swings on more if a curved path as Dr. Mann pointed
> >> > out. I agree with him on this because I've analyzed countless swings
> >> > when I was learning all this TGM stuff and if you put a dot on the
> >> > clubhead frame for frame and then connect the dots they don't form a
> >> > straight line, they follow a slight curve.
> >> >
> >> > Planes are named according to the reference points on which they are
> >> > set. As an example, the hands plane would be a plane that was resting
> >> > on the hands, a shoulder plane would be a plane resting on the
> >> > shoulders. If a player is said to be using a shoulder plane the curve
> >> > of the clubs path will pass through the shoulder. If the player is
> >> > said to be using an elbow plane the curve of the clubs path will pass
> >> > through the elbow.
> >> >
> >> > So to sum it up, the club follows a path and that path will pass
> >> > through a point the plane uses as a reference.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > David Laville, G.S.E.M.
> >> > The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
> >> > TB-8982
> >>
> >> I've followed your earlier comments on this as well, then studied the
> >> geometry from TGM.
> >> In A Nutshell:
> >> If the base of the plane is a straight line, then....
> >> Then the higher the arms elevate the club, the shaft * must * become
> >> steeper to continue to point to the baseline of the plane.
> >> bg
> >
> > Yes, but... you don't have to swing that way. At my GolfTec lesson
> > they showed me a swing of Tiger's at the 3/4 position where the
> > shaft is parallel to the shaft address plane. That's what Haney
> > teaches, and I guess Tiger has jumped onboard. I'll see if I can
> > dig up a photo.
> >
>
> F L A T and off -plane, and Tiger does not swing that way.
> Neither does poster boy O'Meara.
> Kellie Kehnie comes clos....and where is she today?
> I'm not going to argue this to death, but, if the shaft is parallel to
> adress at 3/4, it's off plane; and Tiger isn't there. He just isn't. You're
> a good guy Bill, but you'll need to show me that for me to believe.
> Be well.
> bg

His old swing wasn't like that, I agree. But I've seen it, I swear.
You'd have to look at recent clips. Parallel to the shaft address
plane, and only slightly off it. And he wasn't the only pro they
showed doing it. I don't have access to their clips, unfortunately,
but If I get ambitious, I'll download some swings from the PGA off
my DVR, and see what it looks like. Maybe this weekend.

From: Birdie Bill on

glfnaz wrote:
> "Dave Clary" <dclary(a)stx.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qg8qe29cjd2no9kj64q8tn7opdf83jvc1n(a)4ax.com...
> > On 23 Aug 2006 20:25:27 -0700, "Birdie Bill"
> > <bighorn_bill(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Yes, but... you don't have to swing that way. At my GolfTec lesson
> >>they showed me a swing of Tiger's at the 3/4 position where the
> >>shaft is parallel to the shaft address plane. That's what Haney
> >>teaches, and I guess Tiger has jumped onboard. I'll see if I can
> >>dig up a photo.
> >
> > This is one point in time so you can't tell where the club shaft is
> > relative to the position at address. But you can see that his left
> > arm isn't "lifting" above the shoulder plane, and that his hand are
> > behind him.
> >
> > http://davidclary.com/tiger.jpg
> >
> >
> > Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
>
> At address--That shaft was through his belt buckle.
> See the plane shift?

No one disputes that the plane shifts near the top. The position
I was talking about is earlier, when the left arm is close to
being horizontal to the ground.

From: AKA Gray Asphalt 2 on

"David Laville" <dlaville(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4jipe25idg0gh668nue8uo28a1qtcimgn4(a)4ax.com...
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:54:03 GMT, "bruce" <buyede(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>has anyone changed over from a 2 plane swing to a one plane swing, and if
>>so
>>how long did it take to change, and what benefits did you notice? Plus
>>what
>>are some of the negatives do you have about the 1 plane?
>>
>>I just changed over a week ago, and i love it.
>
> Give it time. I saw the infomercial and how he wants you to take the
> right arm and elbow back. Disaster.
>
> You'll be back to the two-plane swing. I remember when Natural Golf
> came out. Everybody trying it was almost breaking par the first time
> they used it (or so they claimed). Funny thing is I can't find anyone
> using it anymore.
>
>
>
> David Laville, G.S.E.M.
> The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
> TB-8982

The guy from the golf channel used to be "natural golf" ... what's his name?
Is he still?


From: AKA Gray Asphalt 2 on

It's more important to seing the grip, isn't it than to worry about the
crazy things a clubhead does? When you look at the photos with time lapse
photography the clubhead looks like a 4 plane roller coaster.

"David Laville" <dlaville(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:u2ipe299rt0at7bt3omuh4pvq3se73g9nm(a)4ax.com...
> On 23 Aug 2006 09:39:53 -0700, blakestah(a)gmail.com wrote:
>
>>There is no two-plane swing.
>
> Yes there is and the majority of tour players use it. The club starts
> on the plane of the club at address and shifts to a plane that runs
> through the right shoulder position at the top.
>
> However I have yet to see anyone use a one-plane swing and not even
> Hardy teaches one. What he advocates is a single "plane angle" in
> which the club stays parallel to the original plane established at
> address but still shifts to another plane. To be a one-plane swing
> the player would have to keep the club on the same plane established
> at address.
>
>>There is a swing in which the arms and torso work together naturally,
>>formalized earliest and most clearly by Hogan.
>
> The plane isn't defined by the arms and torso.
>
>>Then there is a swing in which the arms cross the lines of the torso,
>>and a precise
>>series of compensations can allow decent shotmaking some of
>>the time.
>
>
>
> David Laville, G.S.E.M.
> The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
> TB-8982


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