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From: John B. on 16 May 2010 14:55 On May 16, 10:31 am, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote: > On Sun, 16 May 2010 02:01:22 -0700 (PDT), alan <alangba...(a)telus.net> > wrote: > > >Heroin addicts today are in pretty much that precise fix (if you'll > >pardon the pun): they have to pay exorbitant prices to feed their > >addiction and it impacts their ability to discharge the duties of a > >normal life. A heroin addict who is receiving treatment with methadone > >is able to function, so why would they not be able to function if > >they were being treated by smaller doses of heroin instead? > > They use methadone because it gets around the laws against heroin. > Methadone has some advantages because you only need one oral dose a > day rather that 4 or 5 if you shoot smack. Most addicts will tell you > that they prefer smack to methadone. > > Again, most of the negative aspects of heroin are because it's > illegal. A heroin addict with a reliable affordable supply of drugs > can lead a fairly normal life. I have known and been around heroin addicts. They do NOT lead normal lives.
From: Alan Baker on 16 May 2010 15:19 In article <18666b86-000c-4610-953c-6707d9b43049(a)l6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 15, 10:06�pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > On Sat, 15 May 2010 16:48:45 -0700, dene wrote: > > > "Carbon" <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > > >news:4beeaff2$0$4870$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > > >> On Sat, 15 May 2010 06:50:48 -0700, John B. wrote: > > >>> On May 15, 5:56 am, Alan Baker <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote: > > > > >>>> What game is that: the game where you should actually have some > > >>>> evidence to support what you claim? > > > > >>>> LOL > > > > >>> You mean like the evidence you presented to support your claim that > > >>> legalizing heroin would make junkies better parents? > > > > >> I admit I know next to nothing about narcotics. But I would not be > > >> surprised if there wasn't some reasonably functional range between > > >> total withdrawal and being completely blasted. Say the parent is in a > > >> program where they get enough heroin to keep them thinking straight, > > >> but not enough to get wasted. The US is too Puritanical a place to be > > >> so rational about drug addiction, but it's conceivable at least. > > >> Isn't it? > > > > > Good parenting requires sobriety. > > > > If the requirement is stone cold sobriety at all times then the vast > > majority of Americans are bad parents. > > That is not a requirement. But addiction to drugs or alcohol causes a > person to be consumed with his/her need to be under the influence all > the time. Addicts and alcoholics are irresponsible and self-absorbed. > They spend money that their families need to live on. They have > trouble holding jobs. A close friend of mine, now dead, was a terrible > alcoholic. His wife estimated that he spent $12,000/year on liquor. > I've seen families wrecked by alcoholism and drug addiction. And now > Jack and Alan would have you believe that legalizing drugs would > reduce these problems. So then from that incident you would argue that alcohol should be banned? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Alan Baker on 16 May 2010 15:20 In article <cb25a459-37df-49db-b24a-4af088e967f5(a)l18g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 15, 7:48�pm, "dene" <d...(a)remove.ipns.com> wrote: > > "Carbon" <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > > > > news:4beeaff2$0$4870$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 15 May 2010 06:50:48 -0700, John B. wrote: > > > > On May 15, 5:56 am, Alan Baker <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote: > > > > > >> What game is that: the game where you should actually have some > > > >> evidence to support what you claim? > > > > > >> LOL > > > > > > You mean like the evidence you presented to support your claim that > > > > legalizing heroin would make junkies better parents? > > > > > I admit I know next to nothing about narcotics. But I would not be > > > surprised if there wasn't some reasonably functional range between total > > > withdrawal and being completely blasted. Say the parent is in a program > > > where they get enough heroin to keep them thinking straight, but not > > > enough to get wasted. The US is too Puritanical a place to be so > > > rational about drug addiction, but it's conceivable at least. Isn't it? > > > > Good parenting requires sobriety. > > > > -Greg > > Absolutely. I requires presence more than it requires absolute sobriety. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Alan Baker on 16 May 2010 15:21 In article <df9ab495-4095-4191-b55b-059a97714233(a)v37g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 16, 10:31�am, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > On Sun, 16 May 2010 02:01:22 -0700 (PDT), alan <alangba...(a)telus.net> > > wrote: > > > > >Heroin addicts today are in pretty much that precise fix (if you'll > > >pardon the pun): they have to pay exorbitant prices to feed their > > >addiction and it impacts their ability to discharge the duties of a > > >normal life. A heroin addict who is receiving treatment with methadone > > >is able to function, so �why would they not be able to function if > > >they were being treated by smaller doses of heroin instead? > > > > They use methadone because it gets around the laws against heroin. > > Methadone has some advantages because you only need one oral dose a > > day rather that 4 or 5 if you shoot smack. �Most addicts will tell you > > that they prefer smack to methadone. � > > > > Again, most of the negative aspects of heroin are because it's > > illegal. �A heroin addict with a reliable affordable supply of drugs > > can lead a fairly normal life. > > I have known and been around heroin addicts. They do NOT lead normal > lives. No. Because the cost of getting heroin is so high they cannot lead normal lives. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Alan Baker on 16 May 2010 15:21
In article <177e36a9-3e8b-4583-90be-661b9b30c5f9(a)h11g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 16, 5:02�am, alan <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote: > > On May 15, 10:33�am, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 14 May 2010 17:51:05 -0700 (PDT), "John B." > > > > > <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >On May 14, 7:45=A0pm, Jack Hollis <xslee...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 13 May 2010 14:27:12 -0700 (PDT), "John B." > > > > > >> <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >You have yet to explain how or why legalizing drugs would have any of > > > >> >these effects. Legal or illegal, people still have to pay for them. > > > > > >> Actually it's been explained a few times already. =A0Obviously you > > > >> haven't been paying attention. > > > > > >I've been paying very close attention, and you have not explained it. > > > > > If you could get a reliable supply of heroin for $25 a day rather than > > > $500, it would be possible for addicts to get the money they neeed > > > without stealing. �One of the reasons that methadone was introduced > > > was to allow addicts to stop comitting crimes (many violent) in order > > > to support their habit. �It also allowed addicts to get jobs and > > > resume a somewhat normal life. �The addict benefited and so did the > > > community. > > > > > In addition, if drugs were legally available in a store then street > > > gangs wouldn't be killing each other for the right to seel drugs on > > > the street. > > > > Nor would they be handing out free samples to try and get new > > customers hooked. > > > > > > > > > >> >And why are children of drug addicts better off having their parents > > > >> >at home? Do you think junkies make good parents? > > > > > >> If drugs were legal, they would have a lot better chance of being good > > > >> parents. > > > > > >A junkie is a better parent if heroin is legal than if it's illegal? > > > >You can't be serious. Did the end of Prohibition make alcoholics > > > >better parents? > > > > > Did it make them worse parents? > > > > Good point. > > It is not a good point at all. Making narcotics widely available, > cheap and easy to buy would expand the ranks of drug addicts. Anyone > who thinks a drug addict can be a responsible, productive member of > society and a good spouse and parent is incredibly ignorant. I'm sorry, but that is just not necessarily so. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg> |