A Sad Day for Golf, No More Stableford
in [Golf in UK]
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From: The LHC on 20 Feb 2007 13:57 Roberto D V <goatstarer(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:Xns98DDA50011258heresjohnny(a)195.188.240.200: > Paul Schmitz-Josten <alossola(a)web.de> wrote in > news:53vm87F1uevmdU1(a)mid.individual.net: >> The LHC on Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:10:30 GMT in >> <GL5Bh.332295$MO2.2139(a)fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>: >> >> (HCP 54) >>>Obviously things are slightly different for >>>juniors because at younger ages their range is so much more limited, >>>rather than their swings being poor. >> Usually, the juniors are improving much faster than adults. Have you >> ever played with a 12 year old with a 20 handicap? What a delight! > How many years will it have taken for the junior to get down to 20 from > "just the first number the players get over here." - 54? Probably not that long actually, at our club there's a very good junior section, and they've set their juniors a target of halfing their handicap every year! They too are given a 54 handicap when they first join, so that would imply they get down to 27 in the first year, which then allows them to join the adult comps, so they should get down to 20 in roughly the next 6 months at that rate. So 18 months from 54 to 20 for them. LHC.
From: The LHC on 20 Feb 2007 14:28 Paul Schmitz-Josten <alossola(a)web.de> wrote in news:53vm87F1uevmdU1(a)mid.individual.net: > The LHC on Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:10:30 GMT in > <GL5Bh.332295$MO2.2139(a)fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>: > > (HCP 54) >>Obviously things are slightly different for >>juniors because at younger ages their range is so much more limited, >>rather than their swings being poor. > Usually, the juniors are improving much faster than adults. Have you > ever played with a 12 year old with a 20 handicap? What a delight! yes as I mentioned in another thread I played the adult-junior christmas comp just gone, I was paired with a 9 year old playing of 29 and his elder brother was part of the other 2-ball , he was 12, playing off 22, it was an eye-opener! Certainly showed me how to putt anyway! >>> Then, it's also "ridiculous" to have a general speed limit or not to >>> have one. >>Your metaphor is wrong, > I don't think so, because I'm not comparing the usage of speed limits > but rather people's attitude looking at them. you'll have to explain it better then as I don't understand the metaphor, a handicap isn't trying to limit what you're doing, it's to aid you, so it's almost exactly the opposite of a speed limit which is there to stop you doing something. > (poor American driving test) >> IMO that isn't good enough to allow you to drive a car on the >>road and in the same way a handicap of 54 isn't good enough to allow >>someone on a golf course. > Yet millions of Americans who passed these poor driving tests drive > safely on American streets no they don't, that was my point! > - I never heard of an excessive number of casualities. you haven't looked then, try googling for intersection fatalities or something like that, the death rate on American roads, largely from people who really don't know what they're doing, is frightening! It's one of the reason Americans buy such big SUVs, they think it's the only way they'll survive the inevitable high-speed shunt from someone behind them. > In the same way, people in Germany start playing golf off 54. This is > to the same extent ridiculous as the American driving beginners are. err, yes! My point exactly, it's ridiculous to allow someone to drive when they've had no lessons and managed to drive round a car park to get their license and it's equally ridiculous for some who *needs* 54 shots (and if, as you say, they don't necessarily need all those shots, why are they getting them?) to be attempting to play golf on a proper course. >>> In my eyes it's just a different habit, resulting from different >>> historical and environmental conditions. Some of them are the >>> different number of golfers and the different number of golf >>> courses. >> >>In my eyes it just allows someone who's never held a club to go >>straight out onto a course getting in the way when they don't know the >>first thing about the game. > Fortunately, you changed your mind on that issue already. I'm still confused as to why, if they've had all those lessons, do they all get a 54 handicap which will give them an unfair advantage in the first few comps they play in? LHC.
From: Crispin Roche on 20 Feb 2007 14:54 On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:50:33 -0000, "Janet Homer" <JanetH(a)teeoldlinksgolf.com> wrote: >>It's ridiculous because anyone needing 54 shots doesn't yet have the basics >>down solid enough to be playing on a golf course. > >>Nobody says that they need it - it is just the first number the players get >>over here. > >It seeems you are implying that perhaps many who are given this handicap are >to one degree or another better than this when they first start to play yet >they are given a 54 handicap regardless. To get a handicap here - and I am >happy to stand corrected as I only know what happens with the ladies - but >we are all the same now aren't we;)) - you need to put in three (or four?) >cards and your first handicap is based on the results. You can't play in a >competition until this happens - i.e. you have a valid handicap. Are you >saying that people play with the 54 handicap in competitions before their >true playing ability is assessed? > From German players I have played with the system works something like this. A player who has never played before is given a handicap of 54 when they join a club (which is pretty much a prerequisite to play golf in Germany). With that handicap they then have to complete a series of lessons (can you imagine the outcry here if the EGU or CONGU stipulated that!) and pass a basic playing test demonstrating that they can hit a fairway from the tee, hit approach shots which at least get near the green, hit something like 4 out of 5 chip shots onto the green and make some putts. They also have to pass an etiquette and rules test before they are unleashed onto the course. Their 54 handicap is then used in their own club competitions where the players results are then used to adjust their handicap and after 3 or 4 competitions the players tend to be playing somewhere between 28 and 36. Btw 36 is the upper handicap limit for men under the European Golf Association handicap scheme. Personally I think the system has a lot to commend it. The number of player I come across who cannot manage the basics of the German playing test is enough to try the patience of Job and as for some basic rules knowledge well that would save me having to explain to yet another golfer just how one determines the nearest point of releif:-) Also having a handicap from day one reinforces the idea that golf is a sport, or game if you will, not just a pleasant stroll in the "country. Crispin Roche
From: Paul Schmitz-Josten on 21 Feb 2007 03:00 Roberto D V schrieb am Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:47:09 GMT in <Xns98DB595FFD3FFheresjohnny(a)195.188.240.200>: (The German golf federation caps at 54) >> Is it "ridiculous" just because you aren't used to it? > >No, it's ridiculous because anyone playing off a handicap of 54 is >likely to lose more balls, therefore slowing play to a generally >unacceptable level; What is "generally unacceptable"? It's a question of habits and personal opinion, isn't it? In addition, the clubs can control these things by the measure they take when accepting someone to the aptitude test and by advising beginners only to play in low-traffic times. >handicaps are, in and of themselves, a reflection of >a player's abilities; Are they? A number like 54, given to the players by the authority, is only a number. Only after some tourneys will you know from the handicap what is their ability. >the wilder variation there is in this, the greater >time is spent fossicking around in the pampas hunting the pill. Of course. It isn't nice to play behind a bunch of beginners, but hopefully they will remind their etiquette lessons and let a faster flight play through. Plus, since most experienced players have been in the same situation, they are likely to be more tolerant to this state of development than people from other countries are. >Harrumph. H�h? Paul
From: Paul Schmitz-Josten on 21 Feb 2007 03:00
Janet Homer schrieb am Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:50:33 -0000 in <45dac469$0$8744$ed2619ec(a)ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>: >It seeems you are implying that perhaps many who are given this handicap are >to one degree or another better than this when they first start to play yet >they are given a 54 handicap regardless. "perhaps many" is the best description. In fact and AFAIK, every rookie starts off 54 here. (remember: 37 to 54 are in the clubs' responsibility) > To get a handicap here - and I am >happy to stand corrected as I only know what happens with the ladies - but >we are all the same now aren't we;)) - you need to put in three (or four?) >cards and your first handicap is based on the results. You can't play in a >competition until this happens - i.e. you have a valid handicap. This is certainly different in Germany: You give in your certificate of course readiness and get 54 in return. >Are you >saying that people play with the 54 handicap in competitions before their >true playing ability is assessed? Yes I do. >Peace & love This is a good thing to remember - golf is only a game! Ciao, Paul |