health care
in [Golf]
|
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 09:45 In article <0c87438b-2e7f-4e4b-b914-1ab3e8a452b2(a)e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 8:41�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > wrote: > > In article > > <e228cbea-7a59-4e0d-a5f0-100ae87bf...(a)z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 2:52�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- Hide > > > > > quoted > > > > > text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't already. > > > > > No problem! > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we have > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated with > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative damage > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > muscle cells. > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. SOD > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your cells > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various reasons, > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. Classic > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. People > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form of > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > > > not all cases! > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more metabolically > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > don't work). > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > There we go - the plagiarized cut and paste we all expected. > > Really? Prove it, or you are a liar. No, you posted it, it is your obligation to provide the cite. You certainly did not make this up on your own.
From: Dinosaur_Sr on 12 Mar 2010 09:46 On Mar 12, 9:42 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- state.edu> wrote: > In article > <cca963db-2c95-4d56-88f7-6e352023c...(a)e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > On Mar 12, 8:26 am, William Clark <cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio- > > state.edu> wrote: > > > In article > > > <3694bdf9-f055-4f76-8eaa-2e390eb63...(a)g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 1:56 pm, "Moderate" <no spam @no mail.com> wrote: > > > > > "MNMikeW" <MNMiik...(a)aol.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:7vsl35Fbm3U1(a)mid.individual.net... > > > > > > > "BAR" <sc...(a)you.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:MPG.2602bfb33b80b97b989cd0(a)news.giganews.com... > > > > > >> In article <clark-31F53B.08321411032...(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > > > >> state.edu>, cl...(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > > > >>> Out there in public for anyone to look at. > > > > > > >> Where is the link? > > > > > > > Clark has something to hide, hence no link. > > > > > > His MO is to accuse people of the things he is doing. This comes as no > > > > > surprise. > > > > > In science, the little people always belittle their colleagues. We > > > > have a lot of people who get some job by earning gold stars in the > > > > classroom, but when it comes to actually producing real science, they > > > > just don't have it, and so they justify themselves through the > > > > belittlement of others. We have seen it a couple of times here on RSG. > > > > Doesn't mean much. One's own words describe only one's own self. > > > > You have the gall to talk about "belittling" people? > > > > My irony meter just exploded. > > > Really? So challenging your BS is belittlement? How about excessive > > name calling? How about expecting people to recognize you as some sort > > of authority figure? > > Just like recognizing you as qualified to pontificate on the area of > materials science? > > Oops, the new meter just pegged. I never said that. The only one who pontificates on materials science here is you, an X-Ray crystallograph operator. I just said that I have attended materials science conferences and published in the area, nothing more. It is you who had to blowhard and blow that factual statement out of proportion.
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 09:49 In article <MPG.26040e4b6362a0f0989cd9(a)news.giganews.com>, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > In article <clark-01C165.08274512032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > In article <MPG.2603fe1645d1e633989cd7(a)news.giganews.com>, > > BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > In article <wclark2-4766D1.20413011032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > > > state.edu>, wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com says... > > > > There we go - the plagiarized cut and paste we all expected. > > > > > > We learned it from you, the master of unattributed cut and pastes from > > > Wikipedia. > > > > Right. Keep it up, Bertie. Surely someone will side with you. > > Do you remember when you used Puerto Rico as an example of universal > health care? You did a cut and paste from Wikipedia without attribution. > > Google is not your friend. No, I don't :-)
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 09:51 In article <2f91b389-c7f8-4667-9fce-1ce513317111(a)e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 8:34�pm, William Clark <wcla...(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> > wrote: > > In article > > <231c5512-3948-4533-bcb4-14ceaa115...(a)o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > > > �Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 9:13�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 7:36�am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > In article <01bfp5lrgg2sdmnki7ns3htvo1hoaoc...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:42 -0500, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >In article <i3jcp5dsccn4ake2u7vil3j2bqiicpg...(a)4ax.com>, > > > > > > >bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > >> You and Rob should hope that nothing like what Clark's, or John > > > > > > >> B's > > > > > > >> families experienced will never happen to yours. �If it did I > > > > > > >> doubt > > > > > > >> that he would make political use of it here. > > > > > > > > >Let's see, undiagnosed esophageal cancer, Colon cancer, Lymphoma, > > > > > > >Breast > > > > > > >cancer requiring a radical bi-lateral mastectomy. And we, my > > > > > > >sisters > > > > > > >and > > > > > > >I, all have the genes that produce blood clots, got that from both > > > > > > >parents. �And this is just my parents and siblings. If you want to > > > > > > >talk > > > > > > >about Alzheimer's and the devastating effects that has on people > > > > > > >lets > > > > > > >get started. > > > > > > > > No you idiot, let's NOT get started. �I guarantee you that neither > > > > > > Clark nor John wilt make political hay out of your family's > > > > > > problems, > > > > > > nor be callous enough to suggest that you may have made mistakes in > > > > > > their treatment. > > > > > > > > >Everyone's families experience hardships and setbacks. It's how > > > > > > >you > > > > > > >choose to deal with them that is at issue. Singling out a specific > > > > > > >illness or diseases is just the desire of someone to sit on the > > > > > > >pity- > > > > > > >potty for a while. > > > > > > > > Have you no shame???? �Leave remarks about family out of these > > > > > > posts. > > > > > > > Stop whining. > > > > > > > Clark was using his father's situation to show how good the NHS > > > > > system > > > > > in the UK is and he and you are upset that some of us didn't just sit > > > > > around and keep our mouths shut. If you are going to bring your > > > > > family > > > > > in to support your argument, as Clark did, then you had better have > > > > > the > > > > > constitutional fortitude to take some heat on the issue.- Hide quoted > > > > > text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > I'm sure both Bill and I would be happy to take heat from someone with > > > > something intelligent to say. What we got was total bullshit from an > > > > ignoramus who thought he could educate us about a disease that killed > > > > both our parents. > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know! > > > > No, you can't. You can run off to Wikepedia and try to palm off a cut > > and paste job as yours, but we can all see through that BS. Besides, > > it's plagiarism, and I am sure someone as high minded and virtuous as > > yourself wouldn't stoop to it. > > > > I lived with this disease for three years, educated my self on its > > speculated causes and avenues of research, and worked with a senior > > faculty member in the medical school who has a chair partly endowed to > > work on treatments and cures for ALS. I have forgotten more about this > > disease than you will ever know. In the meantime, I recommend a freshman > > undergraduate materials science textbook, Callister's "Materials Science > > and Engineering" that might at least make you look even remotely > > cognizant with materials science. > > Can't see that the materials science book you suggest would have mush > to say about genetic diseases, which is the issue here. No, the issue is that you would be better employed to actually try to learn something about an area you claim expertise in, and a freshman level materials text should be closer to your speed than this ALS cut and paste.
From: William Clark on 12 Mar 2010 10:18
In article <37987fd1-97c8-4160-95e5-7f4c89c4a882(a)z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:35�am, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 12, 9:31�am, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:33�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:12�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:52�pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 11, 2:07�pm, Dinosaur Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> > > > > > > > > > You really want me to "educate" you on ALS? I can, you know!- > > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > Sure, go ahead and make a fool of yourself, as if you haven't > > > > > > already. > > > > > > > No problem! > > > > > > > The symptoms of ALS are caused by oxidative damage to cells, at least > > > > > in the classic sense. With the politics of disease these days, we > > > > > have > > > > > the Muscular Dystrophy people wanting MD to somehow be associated > > > > > with > > > > > ALS. Both are diseases caused by progressive cell damage and cell > > > > > death, but totally different causes. ALS is caused by oxidative > > > > > damage > > > > > to cells. MD is caused by deficiencies in structural proteins in > > > > > muscle cells. > > > > > > > Classic ALS is superoxide dismutase deficiency, or SOD deficiency. > > > > > SOD > > > > > is an enzyme that degrades a molecule that will oxidize other > > > > > molecules in your cell. Oxygen is, as we all know, toxic to your > > > > > cells > > > > > because it is a powerful oxidant, and the molecules in your cells, > > > > > particularly proteins, are highly reduced. When oxygen, and molecules > > > > > like superoxide, which do come to be in our cells for various > > > > > reasons, > > > > > are not processed properly, our cells suffer oxidative damage. > > > > > Classic > > > > > ALS is the accumulation of cell damage due to oxidative stress. > > > > > People > > > > > whose cells do not process oxidizing agents in their cells properly > > > > > can suffer from diseases like ALS. SOD deficiency, the classic form > > > > > of > > > > > ALS, is a disease you are born with, and the cell damage accumulates > > > > > over your life and will eventually kill you if you don't die of > > > > > something else first. There are other enzymes involved in removing > > > > > oxidizing agents in your cells, and if any of the genes for those > > > > > enzymes are deficient, you could develop ALS. Of course your > > > > > mitochondria are oxygen vacuum cleaners in your cells, and gobble up > > > > > most of the oxygen that comes into your cells, but when your > > > > > mitochondria don't work well, ALS would be a minor effect in most if > > > > > not all cases! > > > > > > > Why ALS though, essentially a degradation of peripheral nerves? The > > > > > more metabolically active cells in your body will suffer damage from > > > > > things like SOD deficiency first. Neurons are pretty much the most > > > > > metabolically active cells in your body, and so the more > > > > > metabolically > > > > > active nerves will go first. You need peripheral nerves to do things > > > > > like breath, and thus not being able to breath is a major cause of > > > > > death for people with SOD deficiency (also a major cause of death for > > > > > people with MD, but in the case of MD, it is the muscle cells that > > > > > don't work). > > > > > > > There are also multifactorial causes of ALS, more than one gene, > > > > > interacting with environmental factors. Tough to pin down directly, > > > > > but they are working on it. > > > > > > > They have developed some treatments that can reduce oxidative damage > > > > > to cells, but you have to take them pretty early on for any presumed > > > > > effect. Once the symptoms develop, there is not much you can do. The > > > > > damage is done, and hence the symptoms. But if you had the disease in > > > > > your family history, you could be genetically tested and if you had > > > > > some gene deficiency associated with ALS, you could begin some > > > > > treatments. If it were me, I would. > > > > > > > There is evidence of ALS brought on by environmental factors. I am > > > > > personally somewhat suspicious of such claims, as they are usually > > > > > associated with lawsuits. I don't see how some environmental cause > > > > > could attack all your cells like that, or attack just peripheral > > > > > neurons, but some of the arguments are compelling even if lacking in > > > > > direct, empirical cause and effect evidence (as we all know, > > > > > correlation is not indicative of causality!). > > > > > > > Trying to be non technical, and I don't want to rant on too > > > > > much...time to take the dogs for a walk anyways. > > > > > > > There is a really nice textbook on genetic diseases out there called > > > > > Thompson and Thompson, Genetics in Medicine, 7th edition (don't get > > > > > anything prior to the 6th ed, revised, as they suck), a British book > > > > > to boot, if you want to learn about genetic diseases. Anyone with a > > > > > basic biology background should be able to handle it, which excludes > > > > > you and Clark I suppose. > > > > > > I already knew all this and more, having lived with this disease every > > > > day for 9 years. So you've just wasted a lot of time. > > > > > You asked! I would never have made such a post unsolicited. I wasted 5 > > > minutes, a nice break while grading papers. Mid term grades are due > > > today!- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > I did not ask. And your only purpose in posting this was to try to > > impress people with your erudition. You failed. > > Not trying to impress anyone. I could care less what you think. You > made the false accusation that I made some sort of lecture on ALS, > which I had not. I said I would be perfectly willing to do so if > asked, and you said go ahead. IMHO you asked, I answered and your post > here is a lie! Well, you know all about those. |