health care
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From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 14:20 In article <18a759e4-8b4b-461e-90e1-0899ffe6edf3(a)v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 10, 7:26�pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:59:58 -0800, Dinosaur Sr wrote: > > > On Mar 9, 10:51�pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > >> On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:13:08 -0700, Howard Brazee wrote: > > >>> On 10 Mar 2010 00:00:19 GMT, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>> Earth to Bert: William's father paid for his healthcare ahead of > > >>>> time, with taxes. That's how it works in the rest of the first > > >>>> world. > > > > >>> Heck, that's how insurance works as well. � We don't get exactly > > >>> what we pay for, sometimes getting less, sometimes getting more. > > > > >> Healthcare in the US is an enormous, profit-based industry that has > > >> been specifically exempted from antitrust oversight, with completely > > >> predictable results. It's inefficient. Despite being the most > > >> expensive healthcare system on the planet, it provides demonstrably > > >> poor outcomes for patients. > > > > > Really, so a person has cancer in the US vs a person has cancer in the > > > UK. On average, what happens? > > > > Treatment in the US costs way more. > > It does? How so? The total cost of health care in the UK, including > all associated government, and the cost of equivalent treatment in the > US. What's it cost to have a nurse come by twice a day, and how much > is spent by the UK government to support that? I could just pay a > nurse vs having the government decide that's what I need and then > provide the care. I just can't see how it can in any way be cheaper to > have the govt. do it. Nice try to fudge, but you know that is simply another deflection tactic. The question is "how much do I have to pay on the spot for a district nurse, or a doctor, to visit a patient" in the UK. The answer, of course, is nothing. Not only that, but the doctor and nurse are not paid as piece workers, as they are here, so they don't spend half their time filling out forms for insurance companies - they deliver medical care instead.
From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 14:22 In article <e68b80aa-c737-4d72-8ec7-32ac637c9ec9(a)o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, "John B." <johnb505(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 11, 7:36�am, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > In article <01bfp5lrgg2sdmnki7ns3htvo1hoaoc...(a)4ax.com>, > > bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:42 -0500, BAR <sc...(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > >In article <i3jcp5dsccn4ake2u7vil3j2bqiicpg...(a)4ax.com>, > > > >bkni...(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > >> You and Rob should hope that nothing like what Clark's, or John B's > > > >> families experienced will never happen to yours. �If it did I doubt > > > >> that he would make political use of it here. > > > > > >Let's see, undiagnosed esophageal cancer, Colon cancer, Lymphoma, Breast > > > >cancer requiring a radical bi-lateral mastectomy. And we, my sisters and > > > >I, all have the genes that produce blood clots, got that from both > > > >parents. �And this is just my parents and siblings. If you want to talk > > > >about Alzheimer's and the devastating effects that has on people lets > > > >get started. > > > > > No you idiot, let's NOT get started. �I guarantee you that neither > > > Clark nor John wilt make political hay out of your family's problems, > > > nor be callous enough to suggest that you may have made mistakes in > > > their treatment. > > > > > >Everyone's families experience hardships and setbacks. It's how you > > > >choose to deal with them that is at issue. Singling out a specific > > > >illness or diseases is just the desire of someone to sit on the pity- > > > >potty for a while. > > > > > Have you no shame???? �Leave remarks about family out of these posts. > > > > Stop whining. > > > > Clark was using his father's situation to show how good the NHS system > > in the UK is and he and you are upset that some of us didn't just sit > > around and keep our mouths shut. If you are going to bring your family > > in to support your argument, as Clark did, then you had better have the > > constitutional fortitude to take some heat on the issue.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > I'm sure both Bill and I would be happy to take heat from someone with > something intelligent to say. What we got was total bullshit from an > ignoramus who thought he could educate us about a disease that killed > both our parents. Actually from two ignorami, who care more about defending their bigoted dogma than they do about truth or human decency.
From: William Clark on 11 Mar 2010 14:25 In article <MPG.2602bf38d4e5abbb989ccd(a)news.giganews.com>, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > In article <clark-B5DC2C.08264711032010(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio- > state.edu>, clark(a)nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says... > > > > In article <MPG.2602add8493f473a989cca(a)news.giganews.com>, > > BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > In article <01bfp5lrgg2sdmnki7ns3htvo1hoaoc91p(a)4ax.com>, > > > bknight(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:58:42 -0500, BAR <screw(a)you.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >In article <i3jcp5dsccn4ake2u7vil3j2bqiicpg10c(a)4ax.com>, > > > > >bknight(a)conramp.net says... > > > > > > > > >> You and Rob should hope that nothing like what Clark's, or John B's > > > > >> families experienced will never happen to yours. If it did I doubt > > > > >> that he would make political use of it here. > > > > > > > > > >Let's see, undiagnosed esophageal cancer, Colon cancer, Lymphoma, > > > > >Breast > > > > >cancer requiring a radical bi-lateral mastectomy. And we, my sisters > > > > >and > > > > >I, all have the genes that produce blood clots, got that from both > > > > >parents. And this is just my parents and siblings. If you want to > > > > >talk > > > > >about Alzheimer's and the devastating effects that has on people lets > > > > >get started. > > > > > > > > No you idiot, let's NOT get started. I guarantee you that neither > > > > Clark nor John wilt make political hay out of your family's problems, > > > > nor be callous enough to suggest that you may have made mistakes in > > > > their treatment. > > > > > > > > > >Everyone's families experience hardships and setbacks. It's how you > > > > >choose to deal with them that is at issue. Singling out a specific > > > > >illness or diseases is just the desire of someone to sit on the pity- > > > > >potty for a while. > > > > > > > > Have you no shame???? Leave remarks about family out of these posts. > > > > > > Stop whining. > > > > > > Clark was using his father's situation to show how good the NHS system > > > in the UK is and he and you are upset that some of us didn't just sit > > > around and keep our mouths shut. If you are going to bring your family > > > in to support your argument, as Clark did, then you had better have the > > > constitutional fortitude to take some heat on the issue. > > > > Well, the difference is that I related first hand experience of how the > > NHS treated my father and family, and you and Dino are simply making > > things up off the top of your head, because you don't like the > > implications of the story. The fact that it was my family, as opposed o > > any family that I was familiar with, is irrelevant, but I understand > > that you wingnuts need to deflect the facts of the case into some kind > > of personalized assault. > > Don't post about your family in a public forum if you are not willing to > accept contrary views. > > Stop whining, grow up and develop a more thicker skin. Oh, now we go for the "grow up" defense. What's next - the "foreigners out" gambit? I am happy to defend this account in any public forum, but only with those that deal in facts and truth. You pair if liars care for neither. But please carry on, showing anyone who looks in on this forum just what kind of despicable personal values you have.
From: John B. on 11 Mar 2010 14:49 On Mar 11, 1:58 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 10, 7:12 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:44:14 -0800, Dinosaur_Sr wrote: > > > On Mar 9, 6:57 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > >> On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:01:24 -0800, Dinosaur_Sr wrote: > > >>> On Mar 9, 3:57 pm, "John B." <johnb...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> On Mar 8, 2:51 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostback2...(a)att.net> wrote: > > > >>>>> Really? If I get ALS, I would want full time *CARE* in a care > > >>>>> facility with expertise in the area. Someone to come and clean me > > >>>>> up twice a day at home is pretty grim to me. "Home care" is > > >>>>> substandard, cheapo care in cases like this, but it is where you > > >>>>> have to go when the people have to support a useless, politicized > > >>>>> govt bureaucracy and the cost of health care with the money they > > >>>>> earn and spend on health care. FWIW, no need to support the > > >>>>> insurance companies either, IMHO. If you can pay for a house or a > > >>>>> car, you can pay for health care, and people who are too good to > > >>>>> work can sleep in their own bed. > > > >>>> I find it absolutely astounding that you would purport to lecture > > >>>> William or me about ALS. He lost his father and I lost my mother > > >>>> to it. Everything you've said here is bullshit. There is no such > > >>>> thing as a full-time care facility with expertise in ALS. Home care > > >>>> is NOT "cheapo," or substandard. You know absolutely nothing about > > >>>> this disease, or about health care in general, and you'd be > > >>>> well-advised to shut up about it. > > > >>> Rubbish. I've seen the home care scam up front and personal. They > > >>> push you out of the hospital ASAP, barely conscious in some > > >>> instances. Home care is an excuse for cut rate care, and the > > >>> emotional rubbish thrown out to support it indicates a cynical, > > >>> almost evil lack of compassion by the system. > > > >> How about you just admit that you have no idea about ALS care and we > > >> all move on? > > > > I see, you have no reply to my post, so you make some unrelated > > > comment. Enjoy your home care! You deserve it! And if you have to > > > wait 8 hours for someone to come and empty your bedpan remember, it's > > > what you wanted! > > > Two people in this thread have had one of their parents die of a > > horrible degenerative disease. What is wrong with you? > > I missed something. Someone raises an issue and I respond. Something > wrong with that? The issue is quality of care, and clearly the > American got better care than the Brit.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - If the American got better care, it's because she was rich and had a $1 million insurance policy that covered full-time nursing care. That is not a typical situation and it says nothing about U.S. vs. UK health care quality.
From: John B. on 11 Mar 2010 14:50
On Mar 11, 2:00 pm, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...(a)dukesofbiohazard.com> wrote: > On Mar 10, 7:26 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:59:58 -0800, Dinosaur_Sr wrote: > > > On Mar 9, 10:51 pm, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > >> On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:13:08 -0700, Howard Brazee wrote: > > >>> On 10 Mar 2010 00:00:19 GMT, Carbon <nob...(a)nospam.tampabay.rr.com> > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>> Earth to Bert: William's father paid for his healthcare ahead of > > >>>> time, with taxes. That's how it works in the rest of the first > > >>>> world. > > > >>> Heck, that's how insurance works as well. We don't get exactly > > >>> what we pay for, sometimes getting less, sometimes getting more. > > > >> Healthcare in the US is an enormous, profit-based industry that has > > >> been specifically exempted from antitrust oversight, with completely > > >> predictable results. It's inefficient. Despite being the most > > >> expensive healthcare system on the planet, it provides demonstrably > > >> poor outcomes for patients. > > > > Really, so a person has cancer in the US vs a person has cancer in the > > > UK. On average, what happens? > > > Treatment in the US costs way more. > > It does? How so? The total cost of health care in the UK, including > all associated government, and the cost of equivalent treatment in the > US. What's it cost to have a nurse come by twice a day, and how much > is spent by the UK government to support that? I could just pay a > nurse vs having the government decide that's what I need and then > provide the care. I just can't see how it can in any way be cheaper to > have the govt. do it.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - You could pay a nurse if you had the money. Most people don't. |